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Post by SY3 on Sept 1, 2014 21:06:18 GMT 1
We have a lot of supporters from Wales. I find it absolutely disgusting that they decided to chant sheepshaggers and you're Welsh and you know you're, as if it's a bad thing. I am deeply offended by this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:08:10 GMT 1
We have a lot of supporters from Wales. I find it absolutely disgusting that they decided to chant sheepshaggers and you're Welsh and you know you're, as if it's a bad thing. I am deeply offended by this. Report it then.
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Post by shrewsace on Sept 1, 2014 21:08:42 GMT 1
Also the utter stupidity of such chants when we have Grandison, Gayle and Goldson on the pitch defies belief.
Not that such chants would be any more acceptable if we had an all white squad.
But what must our black and mixed race players think about such nonsense coming from the stands?
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Post by champagneprince on Sept 1, 2014 21:09:01 GMT 1
There is a line between banter and racism that to some/many is unclear. This happens throughout the population, in any walk of life, in any culture, in any country. Add this confusion to the emotionally charged atmosphere of a football match, a goading set of opposition fans and of course no doubt the effects of alcohol and the potential is there for that lack of understanding to tip to the wrong side of the line.
That doesn't mean it's not wrong of course or even that it is doesn't need addressing but likewise that doesn't make anybody who sang it or laughed at it are terrible people who deserve to be hung, drawn and quartered and shamed into submission for the rest of their lives. Neither does it mean they are unintelligent people or indeed racist to the core.
It just means that they got it wrong inside a football ground.
I suspect most, if not all, of those who did shout it have read the article and thought to themselves, 'fair enough we went the wrong side of the line'. Maybe the club can clarify what is acceptable and what isn't so that everyone understands ?
1. Where is the line drawn on what is a racist chant and what isn't ? Sheepshaggers implies that we are Welsh and that there is some 'shame' attached to that. It's intended to be insulting based on a persons possible race, but is it just banter ? 2. Bus stop in Baghdad implies that Luton is full of people from central asia, implying that that has some sort of shame attached to it. Is that any different to the above ? 3. Show us your passports was sung twice from memory. Once at the beginning of the game to the general crowd and then secondly to the lad in the stripes who was being a bit of a plonk. Were both wrong or just the one aimed at the guy in the stripey jumper ?
As said, the line as always is difficult to determine and what it needs is education, some re-iteration of the rules and a bit of common sense. Talk of banning orders is quite frankly potty IMO when the line is unclear to many.
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:09:38 GMT 1
Try not to be - it just shows they absconded from all geography lessons at school!!!
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Post by theshrews81 on Sept 1, 2014 21:11:05 GMT 1
It wouldn’t be sung to a white guy thought would it? Why would it be? Why wouldn't it be? Complete joke of a story And the second person is..
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Post by rothleyshrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:15:54 GMT 1
What about the time last year when 100 plus town fans sung g*** chants to a long haired fan from Coventry . That was discrimination didn't hear any issues raised then Your right that was discrimination to. May be you should have reported it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:18:45 GMT 1
It wouldn’t be sung to a white guy thought would it? Why would it be? Why wouldn't it be? Complete joke of a story You’re right if it is known that they are Eastern European for example. What I suggest those who think this is top lolz football bantz do is check on all white blokes nationalities and include them to if they’re foreign. Or they can just single out the only Asian lad in the crowd.
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Post by jonbond on Sept 1, 2014 21:19:13 GMT 1
My point was that it's numbers related . 1400 Walsall fans sang "sheep shagging b....ds" last year one of the loudest chants I've heard on recent years . Never got a mention .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:21:12 GMT 1
'Racist behaviour' Anyone else a bit baffled by the misleading headline of this story? Immediately 'racist behavior' conjures up disturbing images of people being chased out of towns, being kicked, spat at/physically harmed through being targeted for being a different colour/creed/nationality. KKK, black panthers, jihadists, National Front etc This chant or chant(s), while extremely lamentable, clearly don't register on the same page. All 'isms' are subjective and completely contextual. In terms of language it has to be about the intent of the words, not the words themselves. Politely threatening to 'do someone over' - or words to that effect, on the basis that they are black/white/asian is clearly abhorrent and has no place in society. Asking someone to 'show their passport' is nothing more but a very poor attempt at banter. There is no threat, there is no consequence. I hope if these people are found, which itself is an argument for another day (how on earth can this be proven?), they are given some sort of ban from following the club. Not for 'racist behaviour' but for sh*t banter. You also have to wonder why the posters who proclaim they've been hearing these offensive chants 'for years' haven't done something about it before. Many years ago I reported a well known former taxi driver for shouting the most disgusting and undoubtedly racist word at then Walsall 'keeper Clayton Ince. When I described this scumbag to the nearby steward, she immediately knew this person and said his name. Next home match, there he was stood in the same place shouting the same bile. It wasn't until many years later and after this gentlemen had repeated his actions that he was banned from the club. How do I know this? He once came into where I was working, not knowing it was me who had reported him and boasted of his actions to a complete stranger. These are the people that need smoking out of society. The kids in question will grow up. There’s no sliding scale for racism though it appears evident there is for perception.
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Post by SY3 on Sept 1, 2014 21:22:07 GMT 1
It all comes down to skin colour imo. If white people are insulted or have to accept racist chants then that's banter, but if it's the other way round then it's instantly racism.
Obviously racist chants are wrong full stop, however it seems obvious to me why some cases are deemed racist and others are not.
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Post by Bordershrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:23:46 GMT 1
Stupid, yes.
Racist, no.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:24:21 GMT 1
Do most fans take their passports to away games? I think not. Therefore it was a blantantly rediculous chant destined for dosappointment.
In seriousness, and as a lick spittle lefty of the first order, one bunch of Neanderthals being offensive to another bunch of Neanderthals? **** em and leave them to it. They would be too thick to understand anyway!
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Post by Valerioch on Sept 1, 2014 21:26:59 GMT 1
My point was that it's numbers related . 1400 Walsall fans sang "sheep shagging b....ds" last year one of the loudest chants I've heard on recent years . Never got a mention . Crikey away at Wolves the only time I heard the South Bank was "SHEEP SHAGGING barstewardS" etc and it was bloody loud. It made me laugh!! I don't take offense. Too many people taking offense on behalf of others
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:28:42 GMT 1
Do most fans take their passports to away games? I think not. Therefore it was a blantantly rediculous chant destined for dosappointment. In seriousness, and as a lick spittle lefty of the first order, one bunch of Neanderthals being offensive to another bunch of Neanderthals? **** em and leave them to it. They would be too thick to understand anyway! Unfortunately, the club can't do this once a complaint has been made.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:29:15 GMT 1
It all comes down to skin colour imo. If white people are insulted or have to accept racist chants then that's banter, but if it's the other way round then it's instantly racism. Obviously racist chants are wrong full stop, however it seems obvious to me why some cases are deemed racist and others are not. You don’t have to accept it today that’s the point. White people have been and still are the victims of racism. For example I’m of Irish heritage and my grandfather always told the story of the “No Irish or dogs” signs in the B & B’s when he came to work over here. My father was a victim of racism based on his name, particularly during the IRA bombing campaigns of the 70s.
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Post by rothleyshrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:31:23 GMT 1
My point was that it's numbers related . 1400 Walsall fans sang "sheep shagging b....ds" last year one of the loudest chants I've heard on recent years . Never got a mention . My point is that this chant was aimed at one individual. Surely pointing someone out because of the colour of his skin is not acceptable. I understand that the lad was being a prick, but the chant back was wrong.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Sept 1, 2014 21:31:54 GMT 1
If someone sang 'show us your handbag' to a straight opposition player because they were wearing pink boots would it be homophobic?
Let's assume the 'mixed race' lad in the Luton end is a British citizen and has a British passport.
If you were he, would you not just laugh it off in the same way the football with the pink boots would?
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Post by Mark_Blakes_sling on Sept 1, 2014 21:54:12 GMT 1
My point was that it's numbers related . 1400 Walsall fans sang "sheep shagging b....ds" last year one of the loudest chants I've heard on recent years . Never got a mention . If that really was your point then you made it very poorly. You stated who ever made the complaint was "pathetic", despite the shrewsweb article not actually saying what exactly the complaint had been made about. You were actually commenting on the supposition within this thread it was the passport chant.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 21:54:58 GMT 1
I once provided written, corroborated evidence, including a photograph, of a Town supporter who made several racist remarks/chants at Wembley in 2009.
It was sent to a former General Manager who did nothing with it, and was followed up by a letter to the Chairman.
The chairman then chose to take the p**s out of me about it in a meeting a year or so later and to my knowledge, nothing was ever done.
Great to see a little bit of progress at GM - the overhaul of the club is almost complete.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 22:06:26 GMT 1
I once provided written, corroborated evidence, including a photograph, of a Town supporter who made several racist remarks/chants at Wembley in 2009. It was sent to a former General Manager who did nothing with it, and was followed up by a letter to the Chairman. The chairman then chose to take the p**s out of me about it in a meeting a year or so later and to my knowledge, nothing was ever done. Great to see a little bit of progress at GM - the overhaul of the club is almost complete. Well it’s not really the Club though is it, or is it? I imagine the Football League has a policy that the Club has adhered to.
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Post by mattmw on Sept 1, 2014 22:07:14 GMT 1
Looking at the legislation and protocols for reporting racist incidents the club do seem to have gone very much by the book.
It's covered by the 1991 spectators act and highlights the responses the club should take and what sanctions can be imposed if they don't - which can include sections of the ground being closed or fines imposed for failing to act on the problem.
The act also lists different types of abuse that are classified. Reports don't necessarily have to be made by the victim but can be made by a third party, or by police or stewards on duty at a match.
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Post by SY3 on Sept 1, 2014 22:08:37 GMT 1
It all comes down to skin colour imo. If white people are insulted or have to accept racist chants then that's banter, but if it's the other way round then it's instantly racism. Obviously racist chants are wrong full stop, however it seems obvious to me why some cases are deemed racist and others are not. You don’t have to accept it today that’s the point. White people have been and still are the victims of racism. For example I’m of Irish heritage and my grandfather always told the story of the “No Irish or dogs” signs in the B & B’s when he came to work over here. My father was a victim of racism based on his name, particularly during the IRA bombing campaigns of the 70s. I had Irish Grand parents, and often hear at work 'potato', it does annoy me a little as i was very close with them, but i always understand the people saying it are just joking and have no real malice. My point is, authorities and people in general arn't as keen to report white racism. It's more the other way round imo.
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Post by markglasgow on Sept 1, 2014 22:09:59 GMT 1
It just means that they got it wrong inside a football ground. Getting it 'wrong' inside of a football ground has severe implications. Claiming you got carried away or just followed the crowd won't be defence that holds much credence. Doesn't matter what age you are or what block you stand in there is no hiding place from the current ground regulations that cover all of us as soon as we set foot inside any football stadium. We have a core of idiots at our club whose choice of songs at times are simply unacceptable. Would be delighted to see the systematic rooting out of these individuals. Perhaps a few 'high-profile casualties' would go some way to help focus those who mistakenly think that some of the songs belted out on Saturday are simply harmless 'banter'.
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Post by jonbond on Sept 1, 2014 22:14:35 GMT 1
I find the "let him die " chants far worse . Would the club deal with these people if it was reported ?
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Sept 1, 2014 22:16:32 GMT 1
A friend of mine was refused toilet roll (I know, right) at a corner shop in Edgbaston recently and told that 'White people shop at Tesco, not here'.
Shocking that in 2014 that exists.
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Post by markglasgow on Sept 1, 2014 22:21:02 GMT 1
I find the "let him die " chants far worse . Would the club deal with these people if it was reported ? You really don't get it do you?
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Post by jonbond on Sept 1, 2014 22:22:16 GMT 1
Answer the question
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Post by SY3 on Sept 1, 2014 22:23:00 GMT 1
I was also told in a street in Birmingham, that i could not walk down a certain street otherwise i would get stabbed due to me being white.
I didn't kick up a fuss, i just walked the opposite way. Granted it was late at night, but is that really acceptable?
We have a country that seems obsessed with racism. The word is used so regularly it's almost lost it's credibility.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Sept 1, 2014 22:26:09 GMT 1
To be fair if they made Birmingham a 'no-whites area' I would be more that than happy to oblige.
Place leaves me cold.
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