Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 20:15:08 GMT 1
Woods, Grandison, Goldson and Wildig were all played initially away from their preferred/best positions by GT. Did this help to give them early and valuable 1st team experience or did it hold them back. I'm undecided but slightly leaning towards the opinion that it might have helped them long term
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 20:50:39 GMT 1
Woods, Grandison, Goldson and Wildig were all played initially away from their preferred/best positions by GT. Did this help to give them early and valuable 1st team experience or did it hold them back. I'm undecided but slightly leaning towards the opinion that it might have helped them long term Probably not, but can see your trying to give credit to GT somewhere for what we are achieving now is very funny indeed!!
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Post by lenny on Aug 31, 2014 20:56:27 GMT 1
Probably helps them. Arsene Wenger is a great believer in it - he likes putting players out wide where they have less space, so when they come back centrally it seems that they have more space and have developed a more economical usage of the ball - Ramsey, Chamberlain, Walcott and Wilshere recent examples as well as the obvious Henry. He knows a thing or two about developing young players!
I'm unsure really as to whether an out and out choice between regularly playing out of position and regularly playing in position is really that beneficial over the long-term, but I have no doubt that it's better than no experience - that was the realistic alternative for those players.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 23:49:08 GMT 1
Or was it because he had no other option but to play them out of position. Goldson was never a full back, he knew it, we knew it and GT knew it, but because of poor team building he was a defender , so he was played in defence albeit out of position. A fair few of us could never understand why Wildig was played wide right, even GT praised his ability to play through balls against tight defences, but still he continued playing him wide. Same with Woods who did well at full back, but if you remember he was played midfield ,coming on in one match against MK Dons, and was steam roller end by stronger, quicker players. Turner played players out of position to accommodate poor loanees, and we paid the penalty with relegation. So no, it did,nt help them develope. Fortunately for us we have a manager w,ho puts round pegs in round holes, and the difference is obvious.
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Post by mattmw on Sept 1, 2014 0:19:14 GMT 1
Been reading Bobby Robson's biography recently and he mentioned how playing young players in a variety of positions is common in Europe and one of the things he learnt from coaching in Portugal, Spain etc
Idea behind it is that it gives the players a wider set of skills, and also greater understanding of those positions. So if you play at right back you get to learn where they like to get the ball, and where they don't etc. If you switch to a different role that knowledge helps you play better alongside them
Certainly think Woods and Goldson learned a lot playing at full back and we're getting the benefits of it now.
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pkd
Midland League Division One
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Post by pkd on Sept 1, 2014 0:43:53 GMT 1
Erm.
Grandison played right back during our promotion season. I can't remember anyone complaining then. Quite the opposite.
Goldson was tried there a few times, but it clearly wasn't perfect, and GT only played him there to cover injuries. If you think we are beyond that sort of thing now, ask yourselves who would play right wing-back now if CG got injured/suspended?
Woods was played there after Tavernier got injured. It's possible things may have been somewhat different last season if Tavernier, a player of real quality, had done the half-season (or more) he was lined up for.
Wilding played in his preferred position during our relegation season, and out of position in our promotion season.
I am not defending GT's loan player policy or his limited recruitments, but it's wrong to vilify him for everything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 1:45:35 GMT 1
It hasn't done Ajax, Dutch football, Barcelona or Spain any harm. If more English players were schooled in numerous positions and roles then they may not have been so tactical naive compared with the rest of the World.
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Post by camdenshrew on Sept 1, 2014 6:42:23 GMT 1
The difference with Ajax, Holland, Barcelona etc - apart from the obvious in terms of quality - is that there it is part of a deliberate training strategy to enable players to get an overall picture and appreciation of what happens on the pitch. A strategy which starts when the players are still at school.
With us, it was just a case of papering over the cracks because the recruitment had been so poor or because the budget wasn't there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 8:22:39 GMT 1
Oh, right. So when Rooney plays s**te for England in a wide position, we can take it that it's part of his education before he,s picked to play in his preferred role. As CAmdenShrew so rightly says, an appreciation of other roles should be learnt either on the training pitch or during development games during their apprenticeship. Do not sugar coat it, players were played out of position for one reason only, poor team building and a lack of investment in getting players in that would do a job for us. We cobbled a side together most weeks, and paid the price heavily.
Did,nt hear anyone say , while watching weeks and weeks of dross, that it was good to see our young players getting an education in how to play their preferred positions. Complete bollox.
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Post by mattmw on Sept 1, 2014 8:44:59 GMT 1
Oh, right. So when Rooney plays s**** for England in a wide position, we can take it that it's part of his education before he,s picked to play in his preferred role. As CAmdenShrew so rightly says, an appreciation of other roles should be learnt either on the training pitch or during development games during their apprenticeship. Do not sugar coat it, players were played out of position for one reason only, poor team building and a lack of investment in getting players in that would do a job for us. We cobbled a side together most weeks, and paid the price heavily. Did,nt hear anyone say , while watching weeks and weeks of dross, that it was good to see our young players getting an education in how to play their preferred positions. Complete bollox. Don't think the original post was suggesting that last season's tactics worked. The point was more whether playing out of position had damaged Woods and Goldson or given them a chance to get games under their belt, from which they are now benefitting?
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Post by mrbunny on Sept 1, 2014 9:48:21 GMT 1
All clubs do it, seems the done thing for a young centre half to start at full back, guess it is because they think if you get beaten out wide then the guys in the middle can cover but if you make the mistake down the middle then the striker is in on goal.
Remember when GP used top play Dave Edwards out on the right? All managers do it, particularly at lower league clubs where you have less numbers in the squad.
As for Woods, Goldson and Grandison I don't think it has harmed them playing games in an unfamiliar position. Better to play in the wrong position and learn something than get splinters in your bum.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 1, 2014 10:16:55 GMT 1
I think it's good players aren't pigeon holed into position too early.
NKP was a winger for Histon for years wasn't he?
You always knew Grandison would be best at centre back, but even so he's more immense in the centre of a back 3 because it's not so 'do or die'if he makes a bad choice and we're not reliant on his distribution.
Watching Woods at right back was more like watching Red Rum doing rides on Blackpool beach. Sure, he coped with it, but you knew there was loads more in the tank.
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 1, 2014 10:24:08 GMT 1
Its better for players development to get competitive game time no matter which position they are asked to play.
Would woods still be here if he didn't get chucked in the deep end at RB? I doubt it.
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Post by Myddleshrew on Sept 1, 2014 10:27:32 GMT 1
When bale first played he was left back for Southampton now one of best wingers in world. Langmead was a crap striker here peters moved him as a center back and was decent.
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 1, 2014 11:19:14 GMT 1
I suspect too that if you are young and enthusiastic, you don't really mind where you play so long as you are on the pitch.
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