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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 30, 2014 11:24:00 GMT 1
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 30, 2014 11:30:51 GMT 1
Allegedly twice as many 'Britons' leaving the UK to fight for ISIS than are joining the British Army.
Houston, we have a problem.
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O/T ISIS
Aug 30, 2014 12:17:08 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 12:17:08 GMT 1
IS are a pretty vile bunch who seem determined to reenact the appalling slaughter and barbarism of the crusades in the 21st century.
I don't really understand though where they get there money from to maintane an army. Must cost a lot and surely such funds could be tracked and frozen?
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Post by davycrockett on Aug 30, 2014 12:30:26 GMT 1
IS are a pretty vile bunch who seem determined to reenact the appalling slaughter and barbarism of the crusades in the 21st century. I don't really understand though where they get there money from to maintane an army. Must cost a lot and surely such funds could be tracked and frozen? They have a revenue estimated to be £40 million a week from supporters world wide including the UK but mainly oil revenue and spoils of war.... The worrying thing is the most hard line, brutal are from the UK, with many being protected by 'brothers' living in our communities! This is the most serious threat to world peace let alone our own security since WW2, and before they start it's nothing to do with us invading Iraq or involvement in Afganistan and will require massive world forces raising against them on the ground, with increasing troubles here due to the islamic support amoung UK muslims... a minority yes but still a massive threat Oh dear perhaps not the place for this debate but had to happen
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 30, 2014 12:39:04 GMT 1
IS are a pretty vile bunch who seem determined to reenact the appalling slaughter and barbarism of the crusades in the 21st century. When those nations were originally conquered for Islam it wouldn't have been much different to what we are seeing now.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 30, 2014 12:42:44 GMT 1
I I don't really understand though where they get there money from to maintane an army. Must cost a lot and surely such funds could be tracked and frozen? It's not a conventional army though. It's units, tribes, groups coming together under the same banner, with local support. They hijacked the civil war in Syria and took advantage of a power vacuum in Iraq, while also representing the downtrodden Sunni population. In that chaos they can work with relatively few restrictions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 12:44:15 GMT 1
In political wars with conventional forces, soldiers are scared of dying, in religious wars, the soldiers are fanatical and happy to die as a martyr which makes it so more dangerous
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 30, 2014 12:46:33 GMT 1
In political wars with conventional forces, soldiers are scared of dying, in religious wars, the soldiers are fanatical and happy to die as a martyr which makes it so more dangerous That's not restricted to religion though it is? Look at Japan in WW2.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 12:57:40 GMT 1
In political wars with conventional forces, soldiers are scared of dying, in religious wars, the soldiers are fanatical and happy to die as a martyr which makes it so more dangerous That's not restricted to religion though it is? Look at Japan in WW2. fair point, but I would place that a the exception rather than normal. But he current crisis is very worrying.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 30, 2014 12:59:47 GMT 1
The current crisis is awful.
Their extermination of surrendered enemies is like Cambodia or the holocaust.
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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 30, 2014 13:59:18 GMT 1
They certainly have some vicious and barbaric people within their ranks, fueled by religious hatred, this time because of schisms within the same basic belief. But, that's not new... Protestants burning Catholics at the stake and visa versa was a Christian version of the same hatreds. and then of course, political allegiances get caught up in the same landscape, and reportedly their biggest State Sponsorship comes from Saudi Arabia and Qatar... both noble allies of the West... such is modern geo-politics.
But ThrobsBlackHat makes the valid point that they are coming out of a civil war in Syria, based around Sunni unrest, through the areas of Iraq where the Sunnis predominate, and are aggrieved at being downtrodden under the Shia dominated Iraqi government, and so can thrive with impunity.
To suggest that the same people could somehow ship themselves over here... with weaponry... and pose a threat to us is completely ludicrous and smacks of using the situation to impose the politics of fear upon us in order to make more draconian attacks on our freedoms... such as this insidious government having the right to read all of our emails and spy on what websites we visit and listen in to our phone calls.
This is a Sunni/Shia fight... not against Britain... but suddenly we have this threat where... am attack is highly likely... but an attack is not imminent. So we need to go to this high terror alert today. Why?make up your bloody mind. Is an attack going to happen... or is not going to happen. And from who? The 500 "British jihadists" are over in Iraq... so it's not going to be them. And do we not believe that when, or if, they return, they won't be arrested on arrival.
I will go out happily today knowing that I am not going to be attacked by IS; I do know however that I will be watched every step I take by CCTV cameras and be snooped upon by the Government of Britain in everything I do. And that to me is a far more real and actual threat.
Also when the Syria uprising first began, most people labelled Assad a monster for his brutal slaughter of civilians and we were even considering military action to remove him. I don't normally advocate intervention in foreign affairs, but maybe things would have been better had we done so. So it could be argued that the British Muslims who did go out there to fight against his forces were doing what we should have done.
Many more Brits went over to fight against Franco in the Spanish Civil war... were they all terrorists too?
I think we need a sense of perspective. David Cameron called it today... "the greatest threat ever faced by Britain". I suggest somebody lends him their library ticket and he gets a book out about "The Blitz" and the 2nd World War in general... he just might find that we were then under a slightly greater threat... like a thousand times greater!
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 30, 2014 18:51:26 GMT 1
You're mixing up going to fight with the free Syrian army and the growth of ISIS long after the start of the war.
But even so.
If you think an extremist Islamic state right in the centre of the middle east is not in some way a threat then you're bonkers.
Just like Bin Laden acted with impunity from within a Taliban controlled Afghanistan.
ISIS want to reclaim all Muslim lands, including lots of Spain.
It might not be a threat this week, but once they are free to focus overseas all sorts will kick off
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 30, 2014 19:03:04 GMT 1
Ah, I dunno what all the fuss is about. Innocent people being beheaded, the cleansing of ethnic minorities, the UK responsible for supplying more terrorists than any other state.
Nothing that we didn't do in the medieval times though, eh?
As long as the lick spittle left continue hating themselves for what their great great great great great grandfathers might have done in nomadic times, we'll turn a blind eye to our kids being groomed in Rotherham or the ethnic cleansing taking place all over the Arab world, all in the name of not wanting to put a few noses out of joint. And sussexshrew can simply contend that it's a Shia/Sunni fight, maybe we should just let them get on with it? Go to Winchester until it all blows over and we can carry on living in this multi-cultural utopia without fear of attack or prejudice.
Oh but dose poor kids in Palestine dough... *shakes fist*
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 19:54:27 GMT 1
IS are a pretty vile bunch who seem determined to reenact the appalling slaughter and barbarism of the crusades in the 21st century. When those nations were originally conquered for Islam it wouldn't have been much different to what we are seeing now. Well not really. During the early modern period and beyond most of the captives (non – believers) of conquering Islamists were sold into slavery. In North Africa these captives were traded into the continents slave trade where many found their way into Trans – Atlantic slave trade. Western Europe’s need for slaves paid, in part, for the continuation of Muslim conquest and consolidation. The irony is that today Western Europe’s need for oil partly bankrolls ISIS and other such groups. I was reading an interesting article the other day by an historian of Islamic history who argued that the ISIS beheading of captives if down to their literal interpretation of the Qur’an. Sharing it on social media is thoroughly modern of course.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 19:56:18 GMT 1
They certainly have some vicious and barbaric people within their ranks, fueled by religious hatred, this time because of schisms within the same basic belief. But, that's not new... Protestants burning Catholics at the stake and visa versa was a Christian version of the same hatreds. and then of course, political allegiances get caught up in the same landscape, and reportedly their biggest State Sponsorship comes from Saudi Arabia and Qatar... both noble allies of the West... such is modern geo-politics. But ThrobsBlackHat makes the valid point that they are coming out of a civil war in Syria, based around Sunni unrest, through the areas of Iraq where the Sunnis predominate, and are aggrieved at being downtrodden under the Shia dominated Iraqi government, and so can thrive with impunity. To suggest that the same people could somehow ship themselves over here... with weaponry... and pose a threat to us is completely ludicrous and smacks of using the situation to impose the politics of fear upon us in order to make more draconian attacks on our freedoms... such as this insidious government having the right to read all of our emails and spy on what websites we visit and listen in to our phone calls. This is a Sunni/Shia fight... not against Britain... but suddenly we have this threat where... am attack is highly likely... but an attack is not imminent. So we need to go to this high terror alert today. Why?make up your bloody mind. Is an attack going to happen... or is not going to happen. And from who? The 500 "British jihadists" are over in Iraq... so it's not going to be them. And do we not believe that when, or if, they return, they won't be arrested on arrival. I will go out happily today knowing that I am not going to be attacked by IS; I do know however that I will be watched every step I take by CCTV cameras and be snooped upon by the Government of Britain in everything I do. And that to me is a far more real and actual threat. Also when the Syria uprising first began, most people labelled Assad a monster for his brutal slaughter of civilians and we were even considering military action to remove him. I don't normally advocate intervention in foreign affairs, but maybe things would have been better had we done so. So it could be argued that the British Muslims who did go out there to fight against his forces were doing what we should have done. Many more Brits went over to fight against Franco in the Spanish Civil war... were they all terrorists too? I think we need a sense of perspective. David Cameron called it today... "the greatest threat ever faced by Britain". I suggest somebody lends him their library ticket and he gets a book out about "The Blitz" and the 2nd World War in general... he just might find that we were then under a slightly greater threat... like a thousand times greater! Good post, but you’re wasting your time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 21:05:00 GMT 1
I reckon we should just nuke 'em
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Post by SY3 on Aug 31, 2014 3:09:57 GMT 1
Ah, I dunno what all the fuss is about. Innocent people being beheaded, the cleansing of ethnic minorities, the UK responsible for supplying more terrorists than any other state. Nothing that we didn't do in the medieval times though, eh? As long as the lick spittle left continue hating themselves for what their great great great great great grandfathers might have done in nomadic times, we'll turn a blind eye to our kids being groomed in Rotherham or the ethnic cleansing taking place all over the Arab world, all in the name of not wanting to put a few noses out of joint. And sussexshrew can simply contend that it's a Shia/Sunni fight, maybe we should just let them get on with it? Go to Winchester until it all blows over and we can carry on living in this multi-cultural utopia without fear of attack or prejudice. Oh but dose poor kids in Palestine dough... *shakes fist* This forum is a loony left paradise. Well done Sir, i think that post sums it up perfectly.
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O/T ISIS
Aug 31, 2014 9:31:41 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 9:31:41 GMT 1
Ah, I dunno what all the fuss is about. Innocent people being beheaded, the cleansing of ethnic minorities, the UK responsible for supplying more terrorists than any other state. Nothing that we didn't do in the medieval times though, eh? As long as the lick spittle left continue hating themselves for what their great great great great great grandfathers might have done in nomadic times, we'll turn a blind eye to our kids being groomed in Rotherham or the ethnic cleansing taking place all over the Arab world, all in the name of not wanting to put a few noses out of joint. And sussexshrew can simply contend that it's a Shia/Sunni fight, maybe we should just let them get on with it? Go to Winchester until it all blows over and we can carry on living in this multi-cultural utopia without fear of attack or prejudice. Oh but dose poor kids in Palestine dough... *shakes fist* This forum is a loony left paradise. Well done Sir, i think that post sums it up perfectly. Two rather poor posts by two rather poor posters. One who will read and conclude whatever his brain wants to read and conclude no matter how little evidence there is to support it, and another who just blindly agrees with anything anti arab/Muslim. Talk about lick spittle!
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Post by atcham jack on Aug 31, 2014 10:09:55 GMT 1
if there are any Jihadist attacks in this country, a lot of decent Muslim families will suffer from an almighty Backlash from extremist British. I for one am fed up with hearing about Asian gangs targeting our young girls.
if immigrants or those born here from immigrants cannot keep to our laws, I invite them to leave now before they lose British citizenship. and if the EU pipes up, they can bugger off as well! Britain is only for law abiding British and Visitors.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 10:36:28 GMT 1
. I for one am fed up with hearing about Asian gangs targeting our young girls. . I for one completely agree AJ. Vile goings on and I'm stunned by the lack of action against the alleged perpetrators. Round them all up and take them through the courts and let them feel the full force of British law! What I won't subscribe to though is a blind hatred of any race or culture based on the actions of a small minority.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 11:30:55 GMT 1
if there are any Jihadist attacks in this country, a lot of decent Muslim families will suffer from an almighty Backlash from extremist British. I for one am fed up with hearing about Asian gangs targeting our young girls. if immigrants or those born here from immigrants cannot keep to our laws, I invite them to leave now before they lose British citizenship. and if the EU pipes up, they can bugger off as well! Britain is only for law abiding British and Visitors. Would you include sending home p**sed up old farts wanting to drive home after a few Pints ?
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Post by SY3 on Aug 31, 2014 13:48:56 GMT 1
if there are any Jihadist attacks in this country, a lot of decent Muslim families will suffer from an almighty Backlash from extremist British. I for one am fed up with hearing about Asian gangs targeting our young girls. if immigrants or those born here from immigrants cannot keep to our laws, I invite them to leave now before they lose British citizenship. and if the EU pipes up, they can bugger off as well! Britain is only for law abiding British and Visitors. I am also fed up of hearing the term Asian gangs. If we want to be accurate and talk factually, then surely we should be saying Muslim Pakistani gangs?
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Post by SY3 on Aug 31, 2014 13:53:38 GMT 1
This forum is a loony left paradise. Well done Sir, i think that post sums it up perfectly. Two rather poor posts by two rather poor posters. One who will read and conclude whatever his brain wants to read and conclude no matter how little evidence there is to support it, and another who just blindly agrees with anything anti arab/Muslim. Talk about lick spittle! We all know you'll blindly defend your beloved Tony Blair and his whacky social experiment. Does free speech exist in England? actually come to think of it, i already know that answer.
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Post by atcham jack on Aug 31, 2014 15:23:46 GMT 1
sadly tb is to blame for ISIS. p**sed old farts are ok as long as they stick to a pint. rest assured all these insults are going down in AJ's Book ready for 9/10-11/10
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Post by jamo on Aug 31, 2014 15:45:22 GMT 1
Lick spittle Left ! Cheered me up no end that has
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Aug 31, 2014 16:21:08 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 16:21:08 GMT 1
Two rather poor posts by two rather poor posters. One who will read and conclude whatever his brain wants to read and conclude no matter how little evidence there is to support it, and another who just blindly agrees with anything anti arab/Muslim. Talk about lick spittle! We all know you'll blindly defend your beloved Tony Blair and his whacky social experiment. Does free speech exist in England? actually come to think of it, i already know that answer. Oh, ok then, as long as you're sure! AJ. The British and other Europeans ****ed up the Middle East long before Tony Blair intervened! But in honesty, I came to realise TBs error quite some time ago!
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 31, 2014 20:17:59 GMT 1
Targetting anybody on the basis of colour, creed or religion is abhorrent.
Interesting Matron says he doesn't subscribe to a 'blind hatred' of any race or culture but much like sussexshrew, will happily subscribe to and pedal push the case for an end to so called 'genocide' in one part of the world while turning a 'blind eye' to the suffering of millions of other far more oppressed people in the world.
Much like Baroness Warsi and the morally corrupt politicians that govern this country.
Anti-semetic? Perhaps not. Largely ignorant and lacking any kind of perspective? Most definitely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 20:45:00 GMT 1
Targetting anybody on the basis of colour, creed or religion is abhorrent. Interesting Matron says he doesn't subscribe to a 'blind hatred' of any race or culture but much like sussexshrew, will happily subscribe to and pedal push the case for an end to so called 'genocide' in one part of the world while turning a 'blind eye' to the suffering of millions of other far more oppressed people in the world. Much like Baroness Warsi and the morally corrupt politicians that govern this country. Anti-semetic? Perhaps not. Largely ignorant and lacking any kind of perspective? Most definitely. Has to be up there (possibly with a couple of mine) as one of the most nonsensicle, irrelevant and fact free posts of the year. Fair play Leicester!
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O/T ISIS
Aug 31, 2014 21:05:10 GMT 1
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Post by SY3 on Aug 31, 2014 21:05:10 GMT 1
You just can't handle the truth Matron. Captain stubborn.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2014 21:44:56 GMT 1
You just can't handle the truth Matron. Captain stubborn. And here is another great contender. Keep it going chaps and you will soon have the whole top ten monopolised! And if it's a name, surely stubborn should be a capital S! But look, in seriousness, it's all perspectives and opinions!
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