|
Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 18, 2014 12:26:38 GMT 1
Don't get too downhearted lads... lots going on behind the sceans, updates will be forthcoming, and the team that have taken this on behalf of the SP (agreed at the last meeting) have been working with the club and things are progressing. Yes there are hoops but down the line the end game of moving on with all this is firmly in the cross hairs!
Exciting times.
|
|
|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 18, 2014 12:38:28 GMT 1
Don't get too downhearted lads... lots going on behind the sceans, updates will be forthcoming, and the team that have taken this on behalf of the SP (agreed at the last meeting) have been working with the club and things are progressing. Yes there are hoops but down the line the end game of moving on with all this is firmly in the cross hairs! Exciting times. Good lad, and all of you working hard on this on our behalf.
|
|
|
Post by champagneprince on Aug 18, 2014 12:56:44 GMT 1
1000 isn't a good sample IMO and I doubt that the board will even think about changing the badge with less than 25% of fans voting. No. It has always been the agreement that all we need is a majority of those that do vote. Besides, as far as I can see, the supporters are doing everything they can to get as many votes in as possible.
If it's always been the agreement why has El Hurican said :
There has been communication with the New CE. Hes fully aware of what the vote is, what we are achieving and where we are at with it. Hes also given us a target which i'm confident we can hit.
Have the goalposts changed then ?
|
|
|
Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 18, 2014 13:20:51 GMT 1
Not really, target is not fair wording from me. Just a number thrown up as something that if we achieved would be ideal. Its a number we are not far from either so not to worry. No real change, just something to aim for. If we don't hit it I doubt it would make any difference.
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on Aug 18, 2014 13:24:08 GMT 1
No. It has always been the agreement that all we need is a majority of those that do vote. Besides, as far as I can see, the supporters are doing everything they can to get as many votes in as possible.
If it's always been the agreement why has El Hurican said :
There has been communication with the New CE. Hes fully aware of what the vote is, what we are achieving and where we are at with it. Hes also given us a target which i'm confident we can hit.
Have the goalposts changed then ?
That highlighted passage is actually a bit scary. We've now been give a target, that's new to me and most others. How confident are you that we will hit it? As Champagneprince says have they moved the goalposts? Also are we sure that they won't just move them again once the final count is over and tell us that too small a percentage voted, therefore it's not really indicative and we'll have to stick with Lenny the Logo for ever? The club have done a lot of good in the close season by getting in new staff, new players, etc., it would be a shame if they took all of that goodwill and threw it away.
|
|
|
Post by WATR on Aug 18, 2014 13:30:00 GMT 1
No. It has always been the agreement that all we need is a majority of those that do vote. Besides, as far as I can see, the supporters are doing everything they can to get as many votes in as possible.
If it's always been the agreement why has El Hurican said :
There has been communication with the New CE. Hes fully aware of what the vote is, what we are achieving and where we are at with it. Hes also given us a target which i'm confident we can hit.
Have the goalposts changed then ?
I'm pretty sure the target isn't binding in any way, just something to work towards. Surely the club can't turn around a couple of weeks before the voting deadline closes and say "Actually we need you to get another 500 people to vote or it doesn't count", potentially rendering more than three months of hard work by the Supporters' Parliament worthless. The club have the details of the vast majority of supporters, if I was them and saw having contacted them all, only a small response rate, I would be asking questions about the clubs ability to engage with fans.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Rickerton on Aug 18, 2014 13:30:16 GMT 1
Is there any word about what's going to happen after voting closes? I appreciate it might seem like a case of counting chickens before they've hatched, but I sincerely hope it's a fan-led thing. It's fine that the club haven't really bothered to promote the vote, but it would be unbelievably cheeky if they try and grab a decisive voice in the design phase afterwards. This has been fought for by the fans, for the fans. STFC should at that point, respectfully, step aside.
|
|
|
Post by WATR on Aug 18, 2014 13:36:09 GMT 1
Is there any word about what's going to happen after voting closes? I appreciate it might seem like a case of counting chickens before they've hatched, but I sincerely hope it's a fan-led thing. It's fine that the club haven't really bothered to promote the vote, but it would be unbelievably cheeky if they try and grab a decisive voice in the design phase afterwards. This has been fought for by the fans, for the fans. STFC should at that point, respectfully, step aside. If Matt Williams and Roland Wycherley are serious about maximising revenue - they will let us have they the badge pictured below back, put it on a blue and amber striped shirt, give it a big release at next years open day and listen to the tills ring to the tune of record shirt sales.
|
|
|
Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 18, 2014 14:11:40 GMT 1
No details on next stages that we can talk about as yet. Lets get the vote closed first. But i'm 99.9% sure fans will continue to be part of this process and play a part in selecting the right badge/crest for the club so that there we get something the fans want, and something the club have the relevant protections for.
That's if its a yes vote.
If was a no, its off the table.
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on Aug 18, 2014 14:17:21 GMT 1
Great news that things are looking positive but the clubs approach to the whole thing seems a little odd
The fans groups have done a great job in getting the word out but the club seem to have done very little if any publicity of the vote which seems odd for such an important issue.
Having voting forms given out at the turnstiles; short feature in the programme and link to the online vote on the official website would cost the club nothing, and help raise awareness of the consultation taking place; build good will that they are listening to the fans and ensure as many fans as possible have their day.
As mentioned in an earlier post would have been great to see the Chairman mention it in his pre season address and would have been a great sign the club are genuinely wanting the views of the fans on this issue
I imagine a lot of fans still only get their news and info about the club from the club. If your in that position you probably won't have a clue about the vote which seems odd especially if the club is also setting targets of responses the campaign needs to get rid of the clippy monstrosity
|
|
|
Post by Hatfieldshrew on Aug 19, 2014 6:41:28 GMT 1
Have you thought about having some one out side the ground with an IPad or other device, so the techno-phobes can vote ? Some one that can help them with the voting.
|
|
|
Post by roberto02afcct on Aug 19, 2014 8:58:43 GMT 1
Have you thought about having some one out side the ground with an IPad or other device, so the techno-phobes can vote ? Some one that can help them with the voting. So does that mean you are volunteering?
|
|
|
Post by roberto02afcct on Aug 19, 2014 9:06:32 GMT 1
Great news that things are looking positive but the clubs approach to the whole thing seems a little odd The fans groups have done a great job in getting the word out but the club seem to have done very little if any publicity of the vote which seems odd for such an important issue. The fact it is not the clubs job BUT the SP job to do so could explain why. The whole thing is supporters based & it's my understanding the club are doing what they can within the rules of data protection. As I keep saying on here people say we need to do more at games, YES YOUR RIGHT so why not help? Ideas are great but the SP needs help in making those ideas a reality. Me I don't mind a change or stay the same why not bring back the SHREW instead of the loggerheads or a different one all together. That conversation is for a different SP meeting for now it is just the vote & doesn't need to be made more complicated. In a nut shell offer the SP reps & the club HELP in these last 2 possible matches to campaign on the issue
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 19, 2014 10:38:23 GMT 1
1000 isn't a good sample IMO and I doubt that the board will even think about changing the badge with less than 25% of fans voting. Don't forget, they do not want this. If they did, then it would have happened. It needs a massive push IMO as the only voting slip I have seen so far was when Ade Plimmer approached me in The Darwin on Saturday (cheers Ade). Maybe if every turnstile was covered outside and then in the concourses at half-time then a 1000 more would have voted ? Or maybe people are just happy with clippy and that's what a 1000 of us will have to accept ? 4000 votes = change, 1000 votes = an excuse not to change IMO. Hopefully I'm wrong but that's the way I see it. That doesn't make sense to me that our kid. As TBH mentions, not voting is not a vote in support of the clip art. It just means those people do not care either way. They are happy to go with whatever the club badge is. So those people wouldn't be against the club changing to the Loggerheads. Say, if you were looking to sell something and you had two people looking to buy your product. One says he'll only buy the shirt if the Loggerheads are on it and the other says he isn't bothered either way what would you put on the shirt? Pretty simply decision for me if you want to sell to both people. And lets say we do get 1000 votes for a YES. OK, we might not get there but certainly not far off. That's 25% of the home support who attend games. That, for a club of our size, is a huge amount. I suspect most of the 75% will buy the shirt with the Loggerheads on it because they don't mind what's on the shirt. A number of the 25% won't with the clip art on it. Now I'm no businessman but for me this is a no brainer...
|
|
|
Post by champagneprince on Aug 19, 2014 12:58:35 GMT 1
I do understand that people who don't vote aren't necessarily giving their support for or against Clippy but the points I made in that particular post are
1. The club DO NOT want the badge to change, otherwise they would've just changed it. 2. Because of this the board will be looking for any excuse not to bother, perhaps starting with the amount of people who bothered to vote. We now know that from going from 'the majority hold sway' we have now been told there is a number attached to this (achievable perhaps but how long is it before that goalpost is moved again ? Remember we are trying to persuade people here who do not want it to change) 3. Therefore,1000 is not enough. El Huracan has said that he's confident that the figure should be reached therefore the figure discussed must be higher than 1000 because that has already been achieved.
And it's not just about shirt sales. There are other issues too, the cost of the change + the original corporate identity issue etc. For all we know the club might be perfectly happy with the shirt sales and the costs of any change plus the corporate risk might far outweigh the sales of a bit of merchandise.
75% and the fans have spoken 50% and well it's 50/50 isn't it ? 25% and it's an excuse to keep changing the goalposts !
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 19, 2014 13:19:46 GMT 1
I do understand that people who don't vote aren't necessarily giving their support for or against Clippy but the points I made in that particular post are 1. The club DO NOT want the badge to change, otherwise they would've just changed it. 2. Because of this the board will be looking for any excuse not to bother, perhaps starting with the amount of people who bothered to vote. We now know that from going from 'the majority hold sway' we have now been told there is a number attached to this (achievable perhaps but how long is it before that goalpost is moved again ? Remember we are trying to persuade people here who do not want it to change) 3. Therefore,1000 is not enough. El Huracan has said that he's confident that the figure should be reached therefore the figure discussed must be higher than 1000 because that has already been achieved. And it's not just about shirt sales. There are other issues too, the cost of the change + the original corporate identity issue etc. For all we know the club might be perfectly happy with the shirt sales and the costs of any change plus the corporate risk might far outweigh the sales of a bit of merchandise. 75% and the fans have spoken 50% and well it's 50/50 isn't it ? 25% and it's an excuse to keep changing the goalposts ! I dunno. As I say, if I'm some businessman and I know I can do something that will make 1/4 of my customers happy whilst not upsetting the vast majority of the other 75%. Well it's a given isn't it. I'm actually in the other camp here, I think the club will be surprised by the amount of people who have voted to change the badge because I suspect they didn't know the strength of feeling towards the clip art. Previously they would have seen one or two people on here show displeasure, also on Facebook I guess. This is now Town supporters voicing their opinion (true fans too as each and every one of them has a supporters number and has therefore watched the Town). I think to ignore the wishes of a 1/4 of your fan base (your customers) wouldn't be the best way to go about things. One in four is a pretty hefty chunk of the support and if that is not countered with decent numbers wanting the badge to stay as it is then I'd be surprised if the club didn't look to change the badge. To say 1000 isn't enough considering we average just over 4000 home supporters just doesn't add up to me. That is a 1/4 of your support. You business. Anyhows, I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
|
|
|
Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on Aug 20, 2014 10:06:07 GMT 1
The fans groups have done a great job in getting the word out but the club seem to have done very little if any publicity of the vote which seems odd for such an important issue. Me I don't mind a change or stay the same why not bring back the SHREW instead of the loggerheads or a different one all together. Because 'the Shrew' was a camp fad from the late 1980s which lasted only 5 years before being removed following a campaign from STFC supporters. The Loggerheads - on the other hand - formed part of our first ever badge (1907), have reappeared constantly throughout our history, represent our club's identity and have an association with our Town dating back 500+ years. We have explained this to you time and time and time again. Whenever someone asks 'why not 'the Shrew' instead of the Loggerheads?' it is the equivalent of a Manchester United fan asking 'who cares about Peter Schmeichel? What about Massimo Taibi?'
|
|
|
Post by El Huracán!!!! on Aug 22, 2014 15:13:22 GMT 1
Ok so we are up to 850 online now as the 1000 mark approaches... add to the 250+ paper versions we have had too... one last game to canvas people at too... all before the vote closes.
If you have not had your say yet please do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 16:53:11 GMT 1
The startling fact is not enough fans have voted on the ballot. Roland Wycherly will not consider the change unless over 50% of the home gate vote for the Loggerheads!
What is the count to date, anything less than 2000 and it wont happen!
I have voted for the Loggerheads before anyone has a go at me, but not enough have voted for it!
|
|
|
Post by WATR on Aug 24, 2014 17:15:12 GMT 1
The startling fact is not enough fans have voted on the ballot. Roland Wycherly will not consider the change unless over 50% of the home gate vote for the Loggerheads! Why does this fallacy keep rearing its head? The agreement has always been the option that the majority of fans who have voted choose will be the winner. Ok, it's not explicitly stated what the badge would change to if the yes vote wins, but we all know it would be madness not to return to the Loggerheads in that event.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 17:27:01 GMT 1
The startling fact is not enough fans have voted on the ballot. Roland Wycherly will not consider the change unless over 50% of the home gate vote for the Loggerheads! What is the count to date, anything less than 2000 and it wont happen! I have voted for the Loggerheads before anyone has a go at me, but not enough have voted for it! Have you just made that number up Fred, or is it a real one? This isn't a petition. This is a robustly administered survey. Anyone with half a grasp of statistics, surveys etc. will know that the numbers that El Huracan has quoted are way above what is really needed to make this good quality exercise.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 17:31:32 GMT 1
The startling fact is not enough fans have voted on the ballot. Roland Wycherly will not consider the change unless over 50% of the home gate vote for the Loggerheads! What is the count to date, anything less than 2000 and it wont happen! I have voted for the Loggerheads before anyone has a go at me, but not enough have voted for it! Have you just made that number up Fred, or is it a real one? This isn't a petition. This is a robustly administered survey. Anyone with half a grasp of statistics, surveys etc. will know that the numbers that El Huracan has quoted are way above what is really needed to make this good quality exercise. Based it on Roland Wycherlys views during our chat back in May
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 18:00:02 GMT 1
If the club (RW) go back on what was originally stated when this survey was launched then they will be making a big, big mistake.
|
|
|
Post by thesensationaljt on Aug 24, 2014 18:07:32 GMT 1
If the club (RW) go back on what was originally stated when this survey was launched then they will be making a big, big mistake.
A massive, massive Miss Take.
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Aug 24, 2014 18:28:47 GMT 1
Have you just made that number up Fred, or is it a real one? This isn't a petition. This is a robustly administered survey. Anyone with half a grasp of statistics, surveys etc. will know that the numbers that El Huracan has quoted are way above what is really needed to make this good quality exercise. Based it on Roland Wycherlys views during our chat back in May Then he should have made his feelings clear to the fans not just 1 fan! He's had plenty of chance and said nothing... Whats new? We've conducted a friendly campaign, but if the club introduce conditions after the vote I can see a more forceful campaign just as RW was regaining popularity and I don't think he wants that..
|
|
|
Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on Aug 24, 2014 18:57:04 GMT 1
I have voted for the Loggerheads before anyone has a go at me, but not enough have voted for it! That's welcome but very surprising - plenty on here will recall when you argued vociferously against removing the clip art lion and restoring the Loggerheads. This wasn't just a one-off post either; it was incessant. Had a change of heart...? Anyway, 1000+ votes is an excellent sample size considering our dwindling home attendances and the meek nature of our fan-base as a whole. There will be no 'moving the goalposts' from STFC late on. Making this suggestion publicly is scaremongering designed to plunge the vote into disrepute and - possibly - a calculated insult to the Supporters' Parliament representatives who have worked tirelessly in arranging, coordinating and adjudicating the vote. Only 7 days left now, comrades. Please remember to VOTE YES for our history, heritage, identity and future commercial interests. No Surrender.
|
|
|
Post by champagneprince on Aug 24, 2014 19:24:51 GMT 1
But as said above, they have already moved the goalposts. There is now a number attached to the vote which wasn't the original agreement.
And if they can do that......
Hopefully all will be well and the vote will be in our favour and acceptable by the club. Then what follows after that will also be done fairly.
But until that happens Fred and anyone else with some doubt is right to be apprehensive that all will go to plan.
|
|
|
Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on Aug 24, 2014 19:36:56 GMT 1
But as said above, they have already moved the goalposts. There is now a number attached to the vote No there isn't - that's an informal aspiration. As Glyn has said; it's 'something to aim for' and nothing else! It's akin to saying to your son an hour before GCSE results day: "it would be brilliant if you could get all A's". If your son returns with 5 A's and 5 B's, it doesn't mean that you're disappointed or that everything he has done is now suddenly invalid. Keep the faith guys.
|
|
|
Post by champagneprince on Aug 24, 2014 19:50:12 GMT 1
But as said above, they have already moved the goalposts. There is now a number attached to the vote No there isn't - that's an informal aspiration. As Glyn has said; it's 'something to aim for' and nothing else! It's akin to saying to your son an hour before GCSE results day: "it would be brilliant if you could get all A's". If your son returns with 5 A's and 5 B's, it doesn't mean that you're disappointed or that everything he has done is now suddenly invalid. Keep the faith guys.
Absolutely not !
It was clear at the beginning and now an 'aim' has been set. Why ?
From the original understanding there was no 'aim' and that means the goalposts have changed !
And keep the faith means what exactly ? I have faith that eventually the badge will change, but I have less faith that it will be done on the back of 1000 people voting. Hopefully I'm wrong, but let's not kid ourselves that the club want it just as much as ourselves or that this is going to be straightforward, if that was the case it would have happened by now.
There is a reason why they don't want it remember.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 20:11:23 GMT 1
Have you just made that number up Fred, or is it a real one? This isn't a petition. This is a robustly administered survey. Anyone with half a grasp of statistics, surveys etc. will know that the numbers that El Huracan has quoted are way above what is really needed to make this good quality exercise. Based it on Roland Wycherlys views during our chat back in May Wow. Cheers :-)
|
|