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Post by suttonshrew on Apr 21, 2014 22:25:44 GMT 1
If the fans vote for the loggerheads then it should be the loggerheads
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Post by stfcfan87 on Apr 24, 2014 20:02:05 GMT 1
Hi guys this is excellent and exactly what I hoped it would bring and that's open discussion Few things: A: this isn't a bring back the loggerheads vote. This is a do we want a change? If so what do we as fans want. Now I'm not saying the fans won't choose the loggerheads but that's up to us to decide B: we can use the club data base I believe so this certainly for me has to be part of the strategy. Would people be willing to give up a pre match drink in the pub to help canvass people at the ground? Maybe we could do a b&a or retro day early next season and go all out to canvass the fan base both outside the ground and in the concourses...... C: any vote has to include a supporter number as this is transparent. How do we make it transparent for those who don't have a SN? This is going to be difficult and open to question but I think the club are just going to have to trust us on that. Keep it coming guys, some great ideas. Think a get together is required so I'll try and get some dates together for this. Agree with you on b. And c. You have to use the clubs database for who is voting. Anyone who has bought tickets or season tickets will be on there If you haven't and no there then it's your job to register on the clubs database, I don't think you need to have bought anything but as long as the club have proof that your a real person then you get a vote. Maybe publicise this for a few weeks with a deadline that everyone eligible to vote has to be on the database by June 30th for example. If you then haven't registered, tough you've had your chance but by then there will be so many that have registered that it won't affect the confidence you have that the results of the vote are valid either way
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Post by MartinB on May 7, 2014 13:09:12 GMT 1
I think people are being unrealistic if they think this is about bringing back the loggerheads.
I can totally understand not being able to use the Loggerheads due to copyright issues and the club needing something they can protect. Strange then they went with clip art as the owner of that image could take legal action against the club at any time.
I want clippy gone although I have worked out having clippy has saved me over £500 in the club shop. A badge that represents the Club is important
Part of the rebranding for me should include a change of policy with merchandising. This should include stocking the club shop with a variety of items particularly at the start of the season and before Christmas.
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Post by WATR on May 7, 2014 19:21:29 GMT 1
I think people are being unrealistic if they think this is about bringing back the loggerheads. Why would that be? Plenty of other clubs manage to use the coat of arms of their town / city as their crest in one form or another. Why does it suddenly become so difficult when it's Shrewsbury Town?
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Post by Matster on May 7, 2014 20:20:07 GMT 1
If we are going to ask people whether they want change, would it not be better to be clear what exactly that change would be first? A better way of doing things would be to first decide upon an alternative, and then hold a vote as to whether that alternative should be adopted. For example: This. Let's not over complicate it. It's a simple question and this form addresses it clearly and succinctly with only genuine supporters being canvassed. Possibly it should be 'Do you want to keep the existing badge' or 'Do you want to change the badge' As was mentioned elsewhere returning to a specific design might not be possible, so a revised version might have to be developed.
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Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on May 7, 2014 20:25:53 GMT 1
I can totally understand not being able to use the Loggerheads due to copyright issues and the club needing something they can protect. Disingenuous nonsense and no doubt music to the ears of club officials. Assuming that the Loggerheads cannot be copyrighted, just how much income do you feel STFC will lose as a result? The amount we're dealing with is so minuscule it really isn't even worth any consideration. Literally pennies. And it would, of course, be off-set against vastly increased sales of official merchandise.
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 7, 2014 21:26:27 GMT 1
The only people likely to poach the comedy lion would be Disney cartoons. The copyright thing is nonsense. Anyone got a picture of the Dan Davies badge with the river loop? It was brilliant. I expect someone will object to it, because Severn Trent might complain.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 8, 2014 8:46:07 GMT 1
That will come in the fullness of time Geoff.
I personally feel we get a yes on this vote for change, if that's the end result) but while we are discussing this with the club now we try to get two guarantees
1) The SP (and by proxy the fan base) have to be front and center in the redesign of potential new badge and the selection of the final badge 2)The loggerheads can be incorporated into a new badge (if not just retain the old loggerheads badge)
I cant see there being any way that should the vote go for change that we wont be back to the issue discussing Loggerheads badge and the issues around it again. Certainly what I will be pushing for, but I think we have to focus on what we have been asked to do now, give the club the mandate from the fans (regardless of everything thats gone on they don't believe they have that yet) to change the badge.
The focus should be on pointing out why clippy is crapola and utterly not suited to the club, once hes out of the way, a myriad of options should open up to us.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2014 9:14:04 GMT 1
The fear is that we vote to change and then end up with something equally unpopular, with a decision making process as limited as last time, I.e. one person decides.
The Loggerheads copyright issue has been both overblown and used dishonestly subsequently.
I understand a straight loggerheads shield with no Shrewsbury town designation is not ours to protect.
But the Loggerheads could be used in a badge the same way the Liver Bird is used in a badge, let alone a cartoon red devil by the biggest club on the planet!
I don't want this vote for change to open a process as frustrating and limited as a kit design competition where blue and amber striped designs (that have won both competitions they have ever been allowed in) were banned from the vote on the say so of the club, without fan inclusion in that part of the process, despite a consultation group being in existence.
No point ending up with a badge vote if no designs include the Loggerheads.
And if you think that can't happen, and that I'm being over sensitive, it's exactly what they did last summer with the kits.
And then they ask the fans group to front an unpopular decision because fans have been 'involved'.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 8, 2014 9:39:03 GMT 1
Dave As I said, my fears are the same, hence why at this meeting I want some guarantees and will be pushing the SP to get it, great if you came along BTW to add to that call (less shouty than I am )
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 8, 2014 9:40:36 GMT 1
Coupe I also say, that even if the SP get a mandate to change, and the club balls it up from that point on by taking it in house and not having the involvement of the fans/loggerheads then at least we have moved on from Clippy...
I cant see us coming up with a badge worse that that...
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2014 10:46:25 GMT 1
Coupe I also say, that even if the SP get a mandate to change, and the club balls it up from that point on by taking it in house and not having the involvement of the fans/loggerheads then at least we have moved on from Clippy... I really disagree with you on this point. We have maybe a once a decade opportunity to change the badge, so if that process if fudged then people will be very angry. At least at the moment I don't have to buy anything from the club shop because of someone else's choices. It will be worse if I don't want anything from there and the club say I helped pick the badge. And that is the vital outcome of this meeting - that the fans have to be in every stage of the design. The large campaign and petition was never just about getting rid of clippy, it was about returning to the loggerheads. Now most people realise we might need to be flexible in the shape, size, design of how they are incorporated but there will be a lot of angry people if the club give us a choice of clippy, the shrew or a bentley on the badge. Any badge option with the loggerheads on would win a vote. Any kit design with blue and amber stripes would win a vote. That's why the club refused to give us the option to vote for blue and amber stripes, because they did not want it. That is what they said, they thought having a kit too similar to the last one would harm sales. That is a deliberate manipulation of a voting process which they were quite public about. So here if they give us a vote on anything except what people actually want then that would be an even deeper wound than having a clipart lion, because it's not just riding over people's sense of identity but it's playing them for fools along the way. I am at a training course next week away from Shrewsbury otherwise I would have loved to have been there, to say most of this in person.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 8, 2014 10:54:30 GMT 1
Dave I get what your saying, hence why I put above that the (for me)loggerheads (or some form of it) must be part of any future badge options we have. However its premature. The club has asked us to look at a VERY specific thing.
Do the fans want to change the badge from what we currently have.
yes there are lots of other questions this leads to and battle to be had, but I cant see how we get to any stage past this without proving the case.. Trust me this will be hard enough.
I will take your comments forward as well Dave, and they do cover what I have already provided the SP chairman, that the next stage also needs some agreement and written guarantees from the club, the two of which I set out above.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2014 11:01:12 GMT 1
But surely if you are going to the entire fanbase with some sort of questionnaire, then now is the opportunity to ask them a wider amount of questions.
Otherwise you have to put all the legwork in twice?
Do you want to change yes / no?
Which of these most reflects the identity of STFC - then pictures of the last 4 badges
Whichever of the last 4 badges people choose, is clearly the blueprint upon which a new design should be based.
or do you have to get hundreds if not thousands of poll results, to say yes, and then you have to go back two months later and do it all again?
That's making the SP do all the work twice.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 8, 2014 11:28:17 GMT 1
So something like Then in one go you have got a potential mandate to change and hopefully a clear idea of what to aim at. And if this survey is all about branding we can have another go an nailing the colours issue.
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Post by suttonshrew on May 8, 2014 14:31:09 GMT 1
dave i think your spot on there. its going to be hard enough to get people to vote once so whatever we need to do it needs to be incorporated into this vote in my opinion.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 9, 2014 8:39:33 GMT 1
I was just going by what we were asked by the club, to answer the question of if fans want change. As far as i'm aware the club did not ask the SP to go further. Maybe Mike has had another steer behind the scenes that the rest of us are not aware of. Guess we will find out Wednesday.
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Post by atcham jack on May 9, 2014 8:58:24 GMT 1
i fail to see why the council has any copyright. the shrewsbury coat of arms goes back to the early 15th century and probably earlier and the ancient borough of shrewsbury was replaced in 1974 by shrewsbury and atcham council, and i believe this has been replaced.
i claim on behalf of king richard 11 title to the shrewsbury coat of arms. i intend to write to the latest town council asking if there is any copyright on the badge as the football club foolishly ditched it in 2007.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 9, 2014 10:31:15 GMT 1
I was just going by what we were asked by the club, to answer the question of if fans want change. As far as i'm aware the club did not ask the SP to go further. Maybe Mike has had another steer behind the scenes that the rest of us are not aware of. Guess we will find out Wednesday. All I'm saying is that once you've gone to the time, printing, collating etc of the information you want to ask as much as you can in one go. To do it twice just looks like they are playing for time, as it'd be three times if you include a vote on potential designs. That's a lot of paper and standing around with clipboards. Plus I'm not sure people will vote for change if they don't know the process by which that would happen and who would be involved.
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Post by designhappy on May 13, 2014 11:24:40 GMT 1
Hi there, We are Design Happy - the agency responsible for the badge concepts which were originally posted here: blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/79671We would like to be the design representatives at this event but it was only drawn to our attention today and will be unable to make it. If someone from the club or supporters group would like to contact us, we would be interested to hear your questions or thoughts on design. Please contact: hello@designhappy.co.uk The original concepts (not final designs) for Shrewsbury Town FC can be seen by clicking the link below. This was by no means finalised and consultation with the club and fans would be needed to create an ownable badge and brand for the club to take forward. STFC Full Concepts: f.cl.ly/items/2b0F0o1q1n2v01123b3Y/SHREWSBURY_TOWN_29_05_12.pdfQuick shot: Thank you Design Happy
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 11:38:32 GMT 1
That second one would be an absolute belter.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 13, 2014 13:31:47 GMT 1
Design happy
Thanks for posting, its a shame that we never got the message out to you sooner.
I will speak to the chairman of the fans parliament and get them contact you.,
PS in the presentation linked above, everyone should read it BTW, it states
"The loggerheads are a very ownable element to Shrewsbury Town and no other club uses or can use them"
Really interesting to see a specialist in the field saying this.
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Post by designhappy on May 13, 2014 13:37:47 GMT 1
Thank you. Please get in touch if any further information is needed. We must stress that these are purely concepts used to convey ideas / 'What if' scenarios.
Design Happy
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 13:52:54 GMT 1
We should get these lot on board ASAP and embrace their willingness to help.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on May 13, 2014 16:01:26 GMT 1
Second design has legs but it must be said the first one is fairly awful.
Anything that has all three of the loggerheads and 'Floreat Salopia' gets my vote.
Having 'Shrewsbury Town' and then 'STFC' underneath it makes no comprehensible sense and is as much of a sin as the clipart in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 18:22:11 GMT 1
Very good designs by Design Happy. I like both concepts but would take out STFC in first badge but leave 1886 in the Logo. Second badge also looks cool Well done
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2014 18:35:34 GMT 1
Second design has legs but it must be said the first one is fairly awful. Anything that has all three of the loggerheads and 'Floreat Salopia' gets my vote. Having 'Shrewsbury Town' and then 'STFC' underneath it makes no comprehensible sense and is as much of a sin as the clipart in my eyes. Agree with this, but I also think they all look a bit too much lion like and would much prefer a more traditional looking loggerheads design. But great to have you involved!
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superstu20
Midland League Division Two
Supporting Shrewsbury since birth
Posts: 103
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Post by superstu20 on May 13, 2014 21:13:35 GMT 1
number 2 gets my vote
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Post by champagneprince on May 13, 2014 21:21:03 GMT 1
Lions have no affinity with Shrewsbury Town FC or Shrewsbury as a whole. The only lions I can think of in the town are at the column. This is a time for the campaigners to really make a stand, perhaps get in contact with Design Happy to come up with some decent 'Loggerheads based' badges together ? There is a real danger here that RW will just authorise what he wants regardless of the fans. I would suggest that the Fans Parliament make it a priority to get Mr Wycherley to say it out loud in a room full of people that he is happy to go with the consensus vote (and that doesn't mean he picks a load of clip art lions for the fans to pick from). One of the choices must be the traditional 'Floreat Salopia' badge and to make it fair one can also be the clip art lion ! If Mr Wycherley doesn't say it out loud, I will predict that our new rebranded badge will be a clip art lion alternative - all voted for by the fans !
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 13, 2014 21:44:24 GMT 1
That Micra looks tidy for an F reg.
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