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Post by WindsorShrew on Oct 21, 2013 19:54:10 GMT 1
Warning this thread is not about football.
Firstly can one of the mods please dig out the original Plebgate scandal, would be interesting to see what was said by whom.
Incredibly I think that a Tory politician may just come out of this with a better reputation than some Police Officers.
My query (that's a dilemma Pab not a poofta like you) is how did so many different officers became involved from so far afield - should we not be worried that elements of the Police force are politically biased and as such act in an unprofessional manner. Further eroding of the Police reputation methinks, I understand there will always be rotten apples but "institutionalised political biase" is a very worrying trend.
Now if these Officers have lied or a best deliberately misled the Federation and the public they should surely fall on the very sword that they were demanding Mr Mitchell fall upon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 21:02:53 GMT 1
Warning this thread is not about football. Firstly can one of the mods please dig out the original Plebgate scandal, would be interesting to see what was said by whom. Incredibly I think that a Tory politician may just come out of this with a better reputation than some Police Officers. My query (that's a dilemma Pab not a poofta like you) is how did so many different officers became involved from so far afield - should we not be worried that elements of the Police force are politically biased and as such act in an unprofessional manner. Further eroding of the Police reputation methinks, I understand there will always be rotten apples but "institutionalised political biase" is a very worrying trend. Now if these Officers have lied or a best deliberately misled the Federation and the public they should surely fall on the very sword that they were demanding Mr Mitchell fall upon. Dwarf! I agree, if they have been found to have lied then I can't see how at very least they have not been taken through the disciplinary process.
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Post by jamo on Oct 21, 2013 21:03:34 GMT 1
Police don't come out of this with much credit but the sub story is why they would do such a thing to a senior government official.
What was it about Mitchell that instigated such feelings, what was the 'previous' that made those on duty think " right, we're going to have a go at you " why were professional officers of the law prepared to jeopardise so much ?
Much more to this than meets the eye
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 21:11:27 GMT 1
why were professional officers of the law prepared to jeopardise so much ? This is the defining comment. Not the 'jeopardising so much', but pretending these chaps are 'professional officers'. Irrespective of political or ideological views, these officers have made a bad example for the police force and should never have allowed any personal grudges to cloud their judgement.
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Post by shrewsace on Oct 21, 2013 21:53:26 GMT 1
He still admits throwing a foul mouthed tantrum when police asked him to comply with a request not to use a certain exit, doesn't he?
All hail Mitchell the Decent!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 22:35:47 GMT 1
He still admits throwing a foul mouthed tantrum when police asked him to comply with a request not to use a certain exit, doesn't he? All hail Mitchell the Decent! The guy is a complete cock imo. But the police officers lied about what he said. That I believe has been proven. Doesn't therefore make a bit of difference what kind of tantrum he threw, the police surrendered the moral high ground. Fail to see how this is defenceable.
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Post by simpsonsghost on Oct 22, 2013 9:53:18 GMT 1
As the costs to the British taxpayer of this whole investigation officially gets ever nearer to £1m (unofficially multiply that by a figure of your own choice) will Mr Mitchell consider dropping it as a matter of common decency as this is money we would prefer to be spent elsewhere.
Mr Mitchell is far more frugal with his own money, the review of his expenses did afterall highlight reclaiming for a glue stick "allegedly" purchased for 45 pence !
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Post by shrewsace on Oct 22, 2013 13:54:14 GMT 1
He still admits throwing a foul mouthed tantrum when police asked him to comply with a request not to use a certain exit, doesn't he? All hail Mitchell the Decent! The guy is a complete cock imo. But the police officers lied about what he said. That I believe has been proven. Doesn't therefore make a bit of difference what kind of tantrum he threw, the police surrendered the moral high ground. Fail to see how this is defenceable. No, it doesn't matter what type of tantrum he threw. Using threatening, abusive or insulting words is a criminal offence under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. Curiously, the party of law and order seem to want to make a one- off exception to their much trumpeted 'tough on crime' stance. The police officers may have no claim on the moral high ground, but neither does Mitchell. Imagine what might happen if the police and Tories ever joined forces. ..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 14:13:19 GMT 1
The guy is a complete cock imo. But the police officers lied about what he said. That I believe has been proven. Doesn't therefore make a bit of difference what kind of tantrum he threw, the police surrendered the moral high ground. Fail to see how this is defenceable. No, it doesn't matter what type of tantrum he threw. Using threatening, abusive or insulting words is a criminal offence under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. Curiously, the party of law and order seem to want to make a one- off exception to their much trumpeted 'tough on crime' stance. The police officers may have no claim on the moral high ground, but neither does Mitchell. Imagine what might happen if the police and Tories ever joined forces. .. But surely if his rant was that bad, as all they needed to do was arrest him?
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Post by shrewsace on Oct 22, 2013 15:17:29 GMT 1
Can't disagree there Downie.
I suppose the police are non- too chuffed with the government, and as they're not allowed to strike they have to find more inventive ways of demonstrating their displeasure.
Or at least these two officers ( allegedly) did.
The good thing about this is maybe the police won't be too willing to do the coalition's bidding if the plebs eventually decide they've had enough of austerity Britain.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 22, 2013 22:17:35 GMT 1
I still can't get beyond the following point: it is accepted by all parties that he swore at a policeman. I wonder how many on this board would get away with that? That should be enough for him to lose his position in the Cabinet surely?
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Post by El Presidente on Oct 24, 2013 15:11:03 GMT 1
Having scan read the transcript from Mr Mitchell's office I am quite confused how, behind closed doors, the Fed boys can complement Mr Mitchell for his candour; yet call for his resignation based on his unwillingness to clarify his comments. OK, he did not actually expand on anything any further than what was already in the newspapers. But what he did do was have a very frank conversation in which he stressed he did not wish for a drawn out public laundry wash of the whole affair as he would see it being bad for Govt, and bad for the police.
I agree with Jamo that I think there are bigger behind the scenes issue at play here.
That said, I still hold by my belief that Mitchell had to go simply as his conduct fell well short of that expected of someone in his position.
Undoubtedly elements of the police federation seized on this as an opportunity to axe grind, given the rampant cuts and changes to terms of service forced on the police by the Govt. Keep in mind that no doubt the Fed's hands are tied in terms of comments to the press whilst the CPS still deliberate over the investigation. They cannot be seen to jeopardise this, although that does not stop the Tory back bench from whipping up a witch hunt.
Lets see what shakes out of the tree. Should the actions of individual officers be found to be below par, then they should face the consequences. Nationally, in an organisation of over 140,000 officers, there will be bad apples. If someone cracked the stats I'm sure they would find that the bad apples are statistically very few. Something the hysterical press would be slow to admit.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 25, 2013 0:59:55 GMT 1
Seems he used abusive language in front of a police officer which is going to get you some attention. Think this idiot has received pretty much what an ordinary member of the public would have got - including, maybe, a little emphasis on making sure it stuck. So how come said idiot warrants government intervention and expensive hearings at Westminster. Will some smart alec member of the public who rubs an officer up the wrong way in Shrewsbury this weekend be able to get the officer before a parlimentary committee? Also, why do we have West Midlands, West Mercia and Warwickshire hierarchies? Private industry would have consolidated the area structure years ago, say London and South East, Wales and the West, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 8:55:13 GMT 1
Yes Mitchell swore and should be reprimanded as a result .
However it is clear the Police 'invented' evidence to suit their case........fitting up individuals to get a conviction has been going on for a hundred years.
If the same thing happened to you or me we do not have the benefit of the Tory press or people in high places to plead our case or dig deeper into what happened. Officers who invent evidence should be sacked on the spot
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 16:28:35 GMT 1
BTT.
Humble pie time kids.
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Post by shrewed46 on Nov 27, 2014 16:41:10 GMT 1
Now Mitchell should resign as an MP but will he I doubt it
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Post by kuffdam72 on Nov 27, 2014 17:12:17 GMT 1
What a load of b******s, how much as this carry on cost the tax payer.
****ing PLEBS the lot of them !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 18:26:51 GMT 1
Warning this thread is not about football. Firstly can one of the mods please dig out the original Plebgate scandal, would be interesting to see what was said by whom. Incredibly I think that a Tory politician may just come out of this with a better reputation than some Police Officers. My query (that's a dilemma Pab not a poofta like you) is how did so many different officers became involved from so far afield - should we not be worried that elements of the Police force are politically biased and as such act in an unprofessional manner. Further eroding of the Police reputation methinks, I understand there will always be rotten apples but "institutionalised political biase" is a very worrying trend. Now if these Officers have lied or a best deliberately misled the Federation and the public they should surely fall on the very sword that they were demanding Mr Mitchell fall upon.
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Post by jonbond on Nov 27, 2014 18:36:36 GMT 1
Mitchell certainly is the loser today particularly as it was a libel case he had little hope of winning but the MET don't emerge with any credit today, they still have an officer in prison as a result of their lies in this case , 5 others have been sacked and a further 3 are still facing misconduct charges
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Post by mattmw on Nov 27, 2014 18:50:19 GMT 1
Does seem a total mess all round for both the Police and Mitchell
Judges summing up hardly paints the officer in the best light saying PC Rowland was "not the sort of man who would have had the wit, imagination or inclination to invent on the spur of the moment an account of what a senior politician had said to him in temper".
Could be Mitchell has a £3 million legal bill too. On the plus side its unlikely him and David Mellor will be invited to public speaking events for a while
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 27, 2014 18:57:11 GMT 1
Mitchell certainly is the loser today particularly as it was a libel case he had little hope of winning but the MET don't emerge with any credit today, they still have an officer in prison as a result of his lies in this case , 5 others have been sacked and a further 3 are still facing misconduct charges Indeed. And the architect of it all still sits in public office.
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Post by jamo on Nov 27, 2014 19:48:38 GMT 1
Warning this thread is not about football. Firstly can one of the mods please dig out the original Plebgate scandal, would be interesting to see what was said by whom. Incredibly I think that a Tory politician may just come out of this with a better reputation than some Police Officers. My query (that's a dilemma Pab not a poofta like you) is how did so many different officers became involved from so far afield - should we not be worried that elements of the Police force are politically biased and as such act in an unprofessional manner. Further eroding of the Police reputation methinks, I understand there will always be rotten apples but "institutionalised political biase" is a very worrying trend. Now if these Officers have lied or a best deliberately misled the Federation and the public they should surely fall on the very sword that they were demanding Mr Mitchell fall upon.
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Post by shrewsace on Nov 27, 2014 21:08:18 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Nov 27, 2014 21:09:35 GMT 1
I'm quite proud of my contribution to this thread - called it right, Mitchell and inexcusable cock!
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Post by floreatsalopia1 on Nov 27, 2014 21:54:11 GMT 1
Mitchell certainly is the loser today particularly as it was a libel case he had little hope of winning but the MET don't emerge with any credit today, they still have an officer in prison as a result of his lies in this case , 5 others have been sacked and a further 3 are still facing misconduct charges Indeed. And the architect of it all still sits in public office. Worth noting 3 police officers left their jobs with no pension . Perhaps Mitchell should be forced to go and lose his pension too . Difference is he is a millionaire 4th generation MP with homes here and abroad. Not forgetting old school tie network which will find him another nice earner .
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 27, 2014 22:08:58 GMT 1
Indeed. And the architect of it all still sits in public office. Worth noting 3 police officers left their jobs with no pension . Perhaps Mitchell should be forced to go and lose his pension too . Difference is he is a millionaire 4th generation MP with homes here and abroad. Not forgetting old school tie network which will find him another nice earner . Yup. In the interests of integrity, those police officers should have gone for their misconduct. They embellished something which, in hindsight, didn't need embellishing. But would Mitchell have been found guilty of any criminal offence (public order or misconduct in a public office) otherwise? Who knows. As it is he was let off the hook by the stupid actions of a few. Mitchell must have been emboldened by their dismissals and convictions as, prior to this, he wanted to do his utmost to let it drop...bury his mistake and move on. Trouble is, his ego got the better of him and he thought a libel case, with all of the publicity it would attract, he could convincingly exonerate himself. It seems a very experienced judge weighed up the evidence, and believes the account of the reporting police officer over that of the exalted MP. Now of course, the burden of proof in a civil action is lower than that of a criminal case. But. The judge has decided that on the balance of probabilities, Mitchell did call the officers Plebs; and therefore continually lied to the public, the press, the enquiry, and to parliament. That is surely a massive case of misconduct in a public office; in the interests of integrity, parity and good morals, Mitchell should offer up his own neck.
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 27, 2014 22:13:33 GMT 1
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Post by atcham jack on Nov 27, 2014 22:33:38 GMT 1
libel case costs taxpayers nothing. whoever lost today has to pay £1 million in costs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 23:48:34 GMT 1
I,ve heard figures circa £3 million overall that Mitchell will have to pay. Does that mean he will get to use the services of his local Food Bank. My heart bleeds.
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Post by jamo on Nov 28, 2014 8:23:01 GMT 1
One mention of the word Pleb and along pops Billy. Coincidence ? I don't think so.
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