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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 9, 2011 11:38:05 GMT 1
Why?? what says what someone is worth, you have the going average rate for the job sector, some are worth more, some are worth less, depending on how well they do there job. Weather you like it or not, there are jobs out there that attract the NMW, and some are good at and some not quite so!! But that would not mean anythin to you would it?? And who would then determine the average rate for their job sector? Who would do that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 11:46:36 GMT 1
The market rate...........
IE the average rate for Security in the midlads is £6.30ph thats the going market rate, so the workers who apply for those jobs are taking those jobs in full knowledge of the going rate of pay!!
That rate of pay then determines what the charge out rate is!!
Really quite a simple equation.
If the people offering the work at that rate of pay had no applicants, then the rate would have to go up!!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 9, 2011 12:04:58 GMT 1
If the people offering the work at that rate of pay had no applicants, then the rate would have to go up!! But if there were no minimum wage then perhaps there would be no other employment offering higher pay? I’ll be honest, economics isn’t my thing. But what if employers were to collaborate in order to keep the market rate down? That’s possible, yeah? So there would be no alternative, no other work available for higher wages. Therefore, forcing people to take the lower paid work in order to earn in order to live? People need to work and if there isn't anything out there then they have to pick up what they can... This could be complete bolloxs, I don't know much about it. But my thinking is that the minimum wage is a must...
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Post by filmcrewshrew on Nov 9, 2011 12:21:40 GMT 1
Why?? what says what someone is worth, you have the going average rate for the job sector, some are worth more, some are worth less, depending on how well they do there job. Weather you like it or not, there are jobs out there that attract the NMW, and some are good at and some not quite so!! But that would not mean anythin to you would it?? I dont disagree with the viewpoint that some people aren't worth £6.08 per hour Paul I work in recruitment I see first hand but the NMW has to go up every year due to the cost of living whether as an employer we like it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 14:12:46 GMT 1
If the people offering the work at that rate of pay had no applicants, then the rate would have to go up!! But if there were no minimum wage then perhaps there would be no other employment offering higher pay? I’ll be honest, economics isn’t my thing. But what if employers were to collaborate in order to keep the market rate down? That’s possible, yeah? So there would be no alternative, no other work available for higher wages. Therefore, forcing people to take the lower paid work in order to earn in order to live? People need to work and if there isn't anything out there then they have to pick up what they can... This could be complete bolloxs, I don't know much about it. But my thinking is that the minimum wage is a must... Well as a lot of competitors are busy trying to find out everyones charge out rates and then attempting to undercut them, they basically do collaborate, but unwittingly. I will not go down the line of lowering my charge out rate which would then lower the wage that I pay. I am a firm believer in offering a service that is worth paying the extra rate for. That is why I have lost a lot of work this year!! saying that, the likes of building sites etc etc will pay as little as possible just to cover insurance requirements, which is why I will not touch them, where as your blue chip client wants |FOH staff and will pay that little extra to get quality!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 14:15:04 GMT 1
Why?? what says what someone is worth, you have the going average rate for the job sector, some are worth more, some are worth less, depending on how well they do there job. Weather you like it or not, there are jobs out there that attract the NMW, and some are good at and some not quite so!! But that would not mean anythin to you would it?? I dont disagree with the viewpoint that some people aren't worth £6.08 per hour Paul I work in recruitment I see first hand but the NMW has to go up every year due to the cost of living whether as an employer we like it or not. Yep, I agree with that, problem is Stalin(Jamo) only believes there are bad employers and thieving managing directors out there but fails to grasp that there are idle work shy t**ts who have got a job, and its =harder to get rid of them due to rules and regs that allows them to get away with being idle and work shy!!
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Post by El Presidente on Nov 9, 2011 15:08:36 GMT 1
I dont disagree with the viewpoint that some people aren't worth £6.08 per hour Paul I work in recruitment I see first hand but the NMW has to go up every year due to the cost of living whether as an employer we like it or not. Yep, I agree with that, problem is Stalin(Jamo) only believes there are bad employers and thieving managing directors out there but fails to grasp that there are idle work shy twits who have got a job, and its =harder to get rid of them due to rules and regs that allows them to get away with being idle and work shy!! Now I KNOW this is going to sound rather simplistc, but isn't that a fault of the recruitment process? Work shy sops should usually be fairly easy to spot with robust interviews and references?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 15:15:12 GMT 1
its amazing how things change after a robust interview process and a probation period has finished, and even more after 2 years continuious employment!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 15:17:45 GMT 1
Yep, I agree with that, problem is Stalin(Jamo) only believes there are bad employers and thieving managing directors out there but fails to grasp that there are idle work shy twits who have got a job, and its =harder to get rid of them due to rules and regs that allows them to get away with being idle and work shy!! Now I KNOW this is going to sound rather simplistc, but isn't that a fault of the recruitment process? Work shy sops should usually be fairly easy to spot with robust interviews and references? You believe it or not are not allowed to give a poor reference. the worst you can do is give a refuse to give a reference. 2nd point, is if i am lucky enough to get a chance to off load someone to another company, what are the chances of me giving him a poor reference, if I was allowed to??
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 9, 2011 15:28:27 GMT 1
You believe it or not are not allowed to give a poor reference. the worst you can do is give a refuse to give a reference. 2nd point, is if i am lucky enough to get a chance to off load someone to another company, what are the chances of me giving him a poor reference, if I was allowed to?? I once got away with writing, "if you get Mr X to work for you, you will be very lucky"
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 9, 2011 15:52:21 GMT 1
Blimey Downie, I do get the impression that you think everyone out there is lazy and work shy, whether employed or seeking employment. I work hard for my wage, do my best for others, try not to let anyone down. And despite what you read in the papers or what some say I believe I am very much in the majority of how folk go about their daily work. Also, I do reckon that the more you pay someone the more engaged they will be in their work. So if you think your getting short changed you know what you need to do, give em a raise!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 16:08:25 GMT 1
Blimey Downie, I do get the impression that you think everyone out there is lazy and work shy, whether employed or seeking employment. I work hard for my wage, do my best for others, try not to let anyone down. And despite what you read in the papers or what some say I believe I am very much in the majority of how folk go about their daily work. Also, I do reckon that the more you pay someone the more engaged they will be in their work. So if you think your getting short changed you know what you need to do, give em a raise!! Seriously, i have some great employees, who work conciensiously and hard, and are an asset to my company, and also have a few, far less in numbers who look to skive and really take the micky. but when you look at stalins take, there is no such thing as a good employer!! I have sat on both sides oif the fence. and have been very surprised at the very noticible difference. problem is, some people just think its easy to make money to pay wages!! But I reiterate that i have a good number of excellent employees, who recieve well erned raises in pay, and the ones that dont earn it, dont get it!! and also are given the home truths when these raises are handed out!!
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Post by filmcrewshrew on Nov 9, 2011 16:08:28 GMT 1
Now I KNOW this is going to sound rather simplistc, but isn't that a fault of the recruitment process? Work shy sops should usually be fairly easy to spot with robust interviews and references? You believe it or not are not allowed to give a poor reference. the worst you can do is give a refuse to give a reference. 2nd point, is if i am lucky enough to get a chance to off load someone to another company, what are the chances of me giving him a poor reference, if I was allowed to?? Purely from my experiences as a recruitment consultant I can tell you all that in some circumstances you can get glowing references on candidates and they will still let you down, however, in some circumstances you can take a punt on someone whom it has been impossible to get a reference on and they turn out to be fantastic workers, their is no definitive rule of thumb and in most insistances you need to trust your own recruitment experience and gut instincts. That said it is always best to reference and in most cases it backs up what you already thought.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 9, 2011 17:18:07 GMT 1
Blimey Downie, I do get the impression that you think everyone out there is lazy and work shy, whether employed or seeking employment. I work hard for my wage, do my best for others, try not to let anyone down. And despite what you read in the papers or what some say I believe I am very much in the majority of how folk go about their daily work. Also, I do reckon that the more you pay someone the more engaged they will be in their work. So if you think your getting short changed you know what you need to do, give em a raise!! Seriously, i have some great employees, who work conciensiously and hard, and are an asset to my company, and also have a few, far less in numbers who look to skive and really take the micky. but when you look at stalins take, there is no such thing as a good employer!! I have sat on both sides oif the fence. and have been very surprised at the very noticible difference. problem is, some people just think its easy to make money to pay wages!! But I reiterate that i have a good number of excellent employees, who recieve well erned raises in pay, and the ones that dont earn it, dont get it!! and also are given the home truths when these raises are handed out!! Good to hear!!
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Post by Pilch on Nov 9, 2011 17:22:30 GMT 1
i remember you offering me a zero hour contract you never even mentioned the wage Cos you did not bother your arse to come for an chat about it as you were afraid it would hinder your benifits.............. and it was to enable you to get the free NVQ that you said never existed!! not being arsed to chat about it is wrong as i spoke to 3 people about it i correctly stated i could not get an nvq whist out of work at the time i was not getting any income i was having to sign on just for my stamp i was getting my rent paid and my council tax i was also claiming on the insurance of a loan and credit card had i taken up your offer, which i wanted to it would have cost me over £1000 for the 5 days in lasted i really wasn't in any position to take up the offer at the moment i'm now debt free having paid off said hinderances, have been in work for over 2 months and working until the end of the year at least, hoping my current job becomes permanent, if not your guess is as good as mine what i'll do next things can change by the day when your'e in my predicament just over a month ago i had a job fri sat sun, i could have killed for the assistant job you were offering with the days available i'm not too modest to come knocking if i may need your help in future especially at £20ph
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 19:12:16 GMT 1
Cos you did not bother your arse to come for an chat about it as you were afraid it would hinder your benifits.............. and it was to enable you to get the free NVQ that you said never existed!! not being arsed to chat about it is wrong as i spoke to 3 people about it i correctly stated i could not get an nvq whist out of work at the time i was not getting any income i was having to sign on just for my stamp i was getting my rent paid and my council tax i was also claiming on the insurance of a loan and credit card had i taken up your offer, which i wanted to it would have cost me over £1000 for the 5 days in lasted i really wasn't in any position to take up the offer at the moment i'm now debt free having paid off said hinderances, have been in work for over 2 months and working until the end of the year at least, hoping my current job becomes permanent, if not your guess is as good as mine what i'll do next things can change by the day when your'e in my predicament just over a month ago i had a job fri sat sun, i could have killed for the assistant job you were offering with the days available i'm not too modest to come knocking if i may need your help in future especially at £20ph Well you spoke to the wrong 3 people then, cos the information they gave you was incorrect!! If you would have spoken to me, I would have told you everything that would have allowed you to get the NVQ and fulfill all the criteria without you being out of pocket!!
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Post by Pilch on Nov 9, 2011 19:43:37 GMT 1
considering the job centre had to stamp my claim forms they said they would have had to mention I had employment even though it was for £0 Hard to get out of when you have a to go on a weekly course arranged by them as well as having to sign
These claim people don't take 'Downie said so' as a valid reason for paying up
If they tell me one thing and you tell me another I've still got to go by their decision
It's a bit like the sainsburys parking The owners say you can't park You say you can
sooner or later a scapegoat will be made I didn't want it to be me Especially after I'd spoken to them and given them the details of it
Don't get me wrong im grateful you made the offer Nothing you did was wrong Its the poxy system that stinks
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 20:05:51 GMT 1
considering the job centre had to stamp my claim forms they said they would have had to mention I had employment even though it was for £0 Hard to get out of when you have a to go on a weekly course arranged by them as well as having to sign These claim people don't take 'Downie said so' as a valid reason for paying up If they tell me one thing and you tell me another I've still got to go by their decision It's a bit like the sainsburys parking The owners say you can't park You say you can sooner or later a scapegoat will be made I didn't want it to be me Especially after I'd spoken to them and given them the details of it Don't get me wrong im grateful you made the offer Nothing you did was wrong Its the poxy system that stinks Hence you spoke to the wrong 3 people, Downie said so is a valid reason not to, but signed declarations from a reputable managing director, and Head of Shropshire County Training generally has some pull, and many many people have benifitted from what I do and the methods employed!! hence, if you'd have been arsed to come and chat to me, it would have happened!! any way, whats gone is gone!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 20:43:03 GMT 1
Thats great, but what happens when the people in the centre, the ones responsible for assessing and ensuring that the claiments fulfill dissagree?
What happens is that the benefits are pulled, either rightly or wrongly, council tax, rent, jobs seekers etc. All gets stopped. Yes it may retrospectively be reinstated, but it's a little late 6-12 weeks later when you've fallen behind on the rent etc and are on the verge of getting evicted.
And obviously insurance covering debt repayments would stop.
As Pilch says if the people that sign off the benefits say no, its a bit of a no brainer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 20:53:32 GMT 1
Trust me< County Training is linked in with Job Centre!! never had a problem with over 140 people!!
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Post by jamo on Nov 9, 2011 21:32:09 GMT 1
Anyone else beginning to think that Benito was born in the wrong century, what a fantastic mill owner he would have made.
There's your job.. that's your wage, I am right, you are wrong. but most of all be bloody grateful and doff your cap to me every morning.
Done well for a working class lad from Telford ! Perhaps we could have a Downward village built locally with Alms Houses for the peasents and a sanitorium and the like. A fitting memorial I would think.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 21:37:56 GMT 1
There's your job.. that's your wage, I am right, you are wrong. Done well for a working class lad from Telford ! Perhaps we could have a Downward village built locally with Alms Houses for the peasents and a sanitorium and the like. A fitting memorial I would think. You have missed out, after Wrong, add, take it or leave it, and please do not be offended if I ask you to do the job well and correctly!! Cannot see the harm in that attitude myself!! From NEWPORT not Telford!! please pass on the planning for mentioned village onto the on strike council workers next time your outside shirehall please!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 21:45:02 GMT 1
Anyone else beginning to think that Benito was born in the wrong century, what a fantastic mill owner he would have made. There's your job.. that's your wage, I am right, you are wrong. but most of all be bloody grateful and doff your cap to me every morning. Done well for a working class lad from Telford ! Perhaps we could have a Downward village built locally with Alms Houses for the peasents and a sanitorium and the like. A fitting memorial I would think.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 21:46:32 GMT 1
As with any front line service that is involved with the assessment and sign off of benefits/care. It doesn't matter if they are wrong, if they say no and begin the process of witholding benefits there is a whole system and process to work through and lets be honest, whilst mistakes are eventually rectified they often take time and when it comes to the provision of benefits this is very problamatic with the knock on consequences.
Also as ever with life, the left hand is often unaware what the right hand is doing and the service user is usually the loser.
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