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Post by Pilch on Jul 30, 2011 14:49:52 GMT 1
I was bored so been messing with spread sheets I guessed that our home fans were 50% adults, 20% concessions 15% u16 and 15% u11 forget the family stand, its too complicated i also guessed what the away % was and basically it a few more adults and less kids based on the same prices that we did have for the 3 games i reckon we made around £50K in gate money of which was £43K from home fans and £7K from away fans + a bit from extra sales the 3 games cost adults £37 concessions £19 u16 £13 and u11 £9 had we offered a 3 game ticket for adults £25 con £15 u16 £10 u11 £6 we would have had to sell around 2400 to be on a par with what we actually made (thats 2400 home fans) reduce the £25 to £20 and you need to sell 2700 we averaged 1604 home fans for each game ps i've also guessed that 20% of fans spend an extra £2 at the game ;D no idea how accurate that is Personally I don't think we did enough to attract fans I might not have bought a £25 ticket but would certainly have bought a £20 ticket, my mates, most of which are concessions would have snatched your hand off for a £15 ticket spreadsheet attached if you want to mess with it meanwhile, i'll slip back into boredom ;D Attachments:filename (28 KB)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 15:44:58 GMT 1
I went to all the games, other then TNS which was the youth team really, but i can see why people wouldnt bother due to prices, the atmosphere isnt there and its generally quite boring, personally i just needed to watch football again as its been a while. Im sure we can get 6k+ for the Plymouth game, which while im on the subject, it doesnt look like they will have much of a squad!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 16:03:57 GMT 1
I was bored so been messing with spread sheets I guessed that our home fans were 50% adults, 20% concessions 15% u16 and 15% u11 forget the family stand, its too complicated i also guessed what the away % was and basically it a few more adults and less kids based on the same prices that we did have for the 3 games i reckon we made around £50K in gate money of which was £43K from home fans and £7K from away fans + a bit from extra sales the 3 games cost adults £37 concessions £19 u16 £13 and u11 £9 had we offered a 3 game ticket for adults £25 con £15 u16 £10 u11 £6 we would have had to sell around 2400 to be on a par with what we actually made (thats 2400 home fans) reduce the £25 to £20 and you need to sell 2700 we averaged 1604 home fans for each game ps i've also guessed that 20% of fans spend an extra £2 at the game ;D no idea how accurate that is Personally I don't think we did enough to attract fans I might not have bought a £25 ticket but would certainly have bought a £20 ticket, my mates, most of which are concessions would have snatched your hand off for a £15 ticket spreadsheet attached if you want to mess with it meanwhile, i'll slip back into boredom ;D I agree, you do realise you have probably bothered to do more analysis on the subject than anyone has ever undertaken at the club
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Post by Pilch on Jul 30, 2011 16:09:24 GMT 1
I was bored so been messing with spread sheets I guessed that our home fans were 50% adults, 20% concessions 15% u16 and 15% u11 forget the family stand, its too complicated i also guessed what the away % was and basically it a few more adults and less kids based on the same prices that we did have for the 3 games i reckon we made around £50K in gate money of which was £43K from home fans and £7K from away fans + a bit from extra sales the 3 games cost adults £37 concessions £19 u16 £13 and u11 £9 had we offered a 3 game ticket for adults £25 con £15 u16 £10 u11 £6 we would have had to sell around 2400 to be on a par with what we actually made (thats 2400 home fans) reduce the £25 to £20 and you need to sell 2700 we averaged 1604 home fans for each game ps i've also guessed that 20% of fans spend an extra £2 at the game ;D no idea how accurate that is Personally I don't think we did enough to attract fans I might not have bought a £25 ticket but would certainly have bought a £20 ticket, my mates, most of which are concessions would have snatched your hand off for a £15 ticket spreadsheet attached if you want to mess with it meanwhile, i'll slip back into boredom ;D I agree, you do realise you have probably bothered to do more analysis on the subject than anyone has ever undertaken at the club imagine what i could do if i had some inside info to work with
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Post by Ned on Jul 30, 2011 16:38:54 GMT 1
Leicester are charging £30 to get in for their match against Real Madrid tonight!
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Post by Hippo on Jul 30, 2011 16:58:04 GMT 1
Leicester are charging £30 to get in for their match against Real Madrid tonight! Are you saying this is good or bad?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 9:32:33 GMT 1
These are friendly matches, I just fail to see how a change in prices would reflect in a significant change in the attendance. Would a couple of quid off here or there really make people think 'actually, I'll go to the pre-season game today'? I wager not. We had a thread on here a couple of weeks ago - people were suggesting cheaper prices but there was still a range of what price people would be prepared to pay for.
Pre seasons are dull, only the really committed end up going - save the incentives for attendance for the 'real' games where we might attract new fans who then support the club for the rest of their lives.
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Post by Ned on Jul 31, 2011 9:35:41 GMT 1
Leicester are charging £30 to get in for their match against Real Madrid tonight! Are you saying this is good or bad? Bad, it's a pre-season friendly!
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Post by Pilch on Jul 31, 2011 10:09:15 GMT 1
These are friendly matches, I just fail to see how a change in prices would reflect in a significant change in the attendance. Would a couple of quid off here or there really make people think 'actually, I'll go to the pre-season game today'? I wager not. We had a thread on here a couple of weeks ago - people were suggesting cheaper prices but there was still a range of what price people would be prepared to pay for. Pre seasons are dull, only the really committed end up going - save the incentives for attendance for the 'real' games where we might attract new fans who then support the club for the rest of their lives. Quite a lot of my mates didn't go simply due to the price I was just trying to show that I think we could have come up with a better pricing structure which might have tempted more along Might have created a better atmosphere and even possibly made the town more money and more long term fans Would certainly have made the loyal fans happy
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 31, 2011 11:21:28 GMT 1
Pilch's attempt at break even analysis shows that it's unlikely that much (if any) revenue would be lost if prices were reduced.
But a reduction would increase goodwill towards the club.
Seems it would be worth a try.
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Post by theshrews81 on Jul 31, 2011 11:29:33 GMT 1
Are you saying this is good or bad? Bad, it's a pre-season friendly! I wld prob pay £30 to see a full strenghth real Madrid team play. Leicester have paid about £1million for the pleasure of playing them I think
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Post by Hippo on Jul 31, 2011 11:50:06 GMT 1
Bad, it's a pre-season friendly! I wld prob pay £30 to see a full strenghth real Madrid team play. Leicester have paid about £1million for the pleasure of playing them I think I'd pay 30 definitely. I'd even more certainly pay the 22 quid it was for season ticket holders (less for concessions). Doubt it's much more than a normal leicester game, which given the cost to make the game happen, is exceptional value. It's real madrid.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 31, 2011 12:27:01 GMT 1
what the figures show is that if we charged £25 £15 £10 & £6 instead of £37 £19 £13 & £9
and exactly the same average of fans turned up we'd have lost maybe £10-15K
but we all know more would have turned up had those prices been a lot cheaper
what we have ended up with is 1000s who didnt bother many of them think the club are money grabbing so and sos
instead of attracting fans, they might have lost some
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Post by alecwillis on Jul 31, 2011 12:53:58 GMT 1
Could have played Birmingham...............................
POLICE have admitted they were surprised by the large amount of Birmingham City supporters that turned up to watch their team face Hereford United in a pre-season friendly on Saturday. Around 2,600 Blues fans descended onto the city, with hundreds unable to see their team draw 0-0 with Jamie Pitman's men. Hereford Times 28/7/11
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Post by davycrockett on Jul 31, 2011 12:55:23 GMT 1
I think the club / GT arranged these pre-season friendlies thinking the opposition would field a stronger side and priced them accordingly........... The reason people chose not to go was the quality of the opposition which wasn't reflected in the price which could ? should have been adjusted as it was clear Man u were in America on tour........... this annoyed fans who would normally turn up a la Pilch I remember the day the Man U game was announced Ant posted that it would be a bumper crowd which would have been the case if a 1st / 2nd team were available.. It was well publicised that a it would be the youth team hence a poor turn out......... Poor planning by the club and a little naive of GT who right up to the day of the Wolves match hoped for a stronger team which was never going to happen due to other fixtures like Notts County the next day....... Last season i went to all the matches in Devon 'on tour' but couldn't be bothered to walk 1/2 a mile and pay £15 to watch what was on offer Once again a case of the club not thinking about it's fans / customers
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 14:01:44 GMT 1
How many long-term fans of this football club first saw the team play in a friendly and as a result got hooked? It's a question that has been asked a number of times on here on recent weeks and never had anyone answer 'yes'. Fans get attracted by league games/ the buzz of the atmosphere created by a competitive game.
As a result I don't see pre-seasons as an environment to get fans hooked.
Offer incentives for competitive games? Yes. Rewards loyal supporters with offers through the season etc? Yes.
Creat the supporter goodwill for games that mean something.
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Post by Optimistic Shrew on Jul 31, 2011 14:18:27 GMT 1
How many long-term fans of this football club first saw the team play in a friendly and as a result got hooked? It's a question that has been asked a number of times on here on recent weeks and never had anyone answer 'yes'. Fans get attracted by league games/ the buzz of the atmosphere created by a competitive game. As a result I don't see pre-seasons as an environment to get fans hooked. Offer incentives for competitive games? Yes. Rewards loyal supporters with offers through the season etc? Yes. Creat the supporter goodwill for games that mean something. A few of my mates went to the Man City friendly who never went before who now have season tickets.
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Post by BelleVueShrew on Jul 31, 2011 14:30:07 GMT 1
How many long-term fans of this football club first saw the team play in a friendly and as a result got hooked? It's a question that has been asked a number of times on here on recent weeks and never had anyone answer 'yes'. Fans get attracted by league games/ the buzz of the atmosphere created by a competitive game. As a result I don't see pre-seasons as an environment to get fans hooked. Offer incentives for competitive games? Yes. Rewards loyal supporters with offers through the season etc? Yes. Creat the supporter goodwill for games that mean something. Ant I totally see what you are saying and agree on that score. However, the point being made by many is not about new fans, but the existing and that many of them feel the club has scored another massive pre season own goal and are just not on the wavelength of the common fan. Believe me, I have spoken with many people over the last few weeks and once more there is a lot of ill feeling over what the club has charged pre season. Many haven't gone to games purely because of pricing structure, myself included. Are the club out of touch? Definitely. Do they care? I'm not too sure, certainly they should though.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 31, 2011 14:48:12 GMT 1
ant, i know your regular example of halving the fee doesn't mean twice as many will attend, i totally agree with that thats why i tried to work things out on a different scale and my conclusion was that there was a decent alternative that could have been tried
my point is i just wish they would have tried
its not as if i'm moaning to the club about it as i'm not i'm just debating it on here
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 15:24:38 GMT 1
Pilch, I don't see it as moaning, certainly not - and Wynnie, I don't disagree with you either about fans' feelings on this.
But if given a choice out of getting a discount / loyalty rewards for competitive games or friendly games, which would fans rather? Or more to the point, which would benefit a greater number of supporters?
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Post by BelleVueShrew on Jul 31, 2011 15:36:36 GMT 1
For many the discount is the season ticket,certainly I see it as a discount.
I'm showing my loyalty to the club by committing for the season and the club reward that loyalty with a healthy discount on the season ticket.
I would also like to see the club encourage more to the club at periodic times with mini groups of tickets (say if we have got 3 or 4 home games in a month, offer a deal for them.
As well as the school projects how about other community groups too?
I don't see why it has to be one or the other though (competitive games against PSF's) All people are asking is that the club show a modicum of sense in pricing, especially when you are talking a number of games close together as you get with PSF's.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 31, 2011 16:17:33 GMT 1
Pilch, I don't see it as moaning, certainly not - and Wynnie, I don't disagree with you either about fans' feelings on this. But if given a choice out of getting a discount / loyalty rewards for competitive games or friendly games, which would fans rather? Or more to the point, which would benefit a greater number of supporters? i just get the opinion that the club sit down and discuss what the most is they can charge for a certain game without thinking things a little further it may be miles away from what they actually do but i only have what they produce to go by
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 17:38:43 GMT 1
Very good posts from Pilch and BVS but it's like banging your head against a brick wall to get the club to listen and try it. I think its a case of "supporters don't know what they are talking about" mentallity from the board!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 18:38:41 GMT 1
I think I'm in the minority here - perhaps there will be a change for next season!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2011 18:55:45 GMT 1
I can see both sides of the argument here and agree with ant about saving initiatives for the competetive games. But how often do the club do this?
Ok so there are often a lot of cheap kids tickets flying about in block one and Nigel Adkins Martin James does a great job in getting schools and sports clubs in but how often do the club do a proper cheap ticket deal for everybody?
I think it was Dagenham last season for their designated Kick Out Racism day that offered tickets for £1 and even less for juniors. The gate that day was near enough double thier average attendance. Now I'm not suggesting we charge a quid but lets say £5. The home stands would have a good chance of being full, even if the club made a slight loss, you get the bums on the seats, potential new fans hooked, a full stadium which looks and hopefully sounds great. The club could even pick a dare I say it 'winnable' game againt lowly opposition, where a win could go a long way to boosting future attendance and entising fans that wouldnt ordinarily come to the match.
The stadium looked great against Oxford and Torquay. The more people that come through the turnstiles means more people buying merchandise and refreshmenst which the club get a cut of, therefore increasing profits. But will something like this ever happen? Doubt it. We all know various suits at the club read blueandamber but they don't seem to take much on board.
Lets get the bums on seats and have the place rocking.
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Jul 31, 2011 20:19:15 GMT 1
Is it the club, the board or 1 person in particular?
I know who my money is on for the poor marketing etc, so many opportunities for good PR go blowing down Oteley Road like tumbleweed because of what in my mind, and many others too, is the stubborness and 'I'm right and everybody elses thoughts are wrong attitude' of 1 particular individual.
I feel sorry for some staff because it would appear that despite all good intentions their hands seem to be tied.
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Post by spartan on Aug 1, 2011 11:28:36 GMT 1
Walsall, who finished 20th in League 1 last season managed to secure friendlies against Villa and Wolves respectively.
They charged £20 for a double ticket (adult) and were rewarded with a combined attendance of over 12200. They must have grossed match receipts circa £100,000 allowing for concessions/ juniors dilution
Admittedly they have a slight geographical advantage over us, and there were plenty of away fans at both games.
The conclusion has to be that (a) either not enough thought and effort was put in by the manager to secure attractive opponents, or GT's status in the managerial world isn't as high as some would like to believe and more importantly (b) despite alerts in the press as early as 3 June that we would be only getting the Wolves Development squad, the Chairman stubbornly refused to respond to the reality of the quality of opposition on offer.
I'm grateful for my season ticket deal, which has cost me £18 less than the previous year ( good old Simmo!).
However, I struggle to relate Roland's annual motherhood and apple pie statement to his decisions which affect the average West stand fan.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 1, 2011 12:15:09 GMT 1
Didn't attend a single one, in fact last pre-season game I went too was Stafford Rangers away in 2008.
Enjoyed that too!
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Post by venceremos on Aug 1, 2011 13:30:52 GMT 1
Pre-season games have limited appeal and are never likely to generate much atmosphere. There's still some interest in seeing the new team and perhaps some decent opponents but the general pricing for this summer's friendlies was too high and the low attendances confirm that. I enjoyed the United game, Wolves was OK, Tranmere was dull.
Better pricing or better opponents - preferably both.
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Post by BelleVueShrew on Aug 1, 2011 13:41:11 GMT 1
The Tranmere attendance was a lot lower than I expected. I think the fact that we played them down here last season plus away the season before, may have nullified their appeal somewhat.
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