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Post by OldGit on May 30, 2005 9:07:07 GMT 1
Goodbye to the EU Constitution.
Should mean cheaper hols in Europe as the Euro will probably weaken vs sterling and the dollar - especially if the Dutch go the same route on Weds.
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Post by blue 44 on May 30, 2005 9:32:23 GMT 1
Couldnt have happened to a nicer bunch of anti democratic Eurocrats Already heard Mandelson say on the radio the EC should press on regardless They just dont get it !
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Post by stuttgartershrew on May 30, 2005 11:32:57 GMT 1
Have to say I'm all in favour of the constitution, anything that can bring Europe closer together gets my vote...
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Post by robert on May 30, 2005 11:35:19 GMT 1
life goes on the Dutch will now reject it, and at least Britain can't be accused and figer wagged at for being the only country who aren't completely convinced
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Post by Blue44 on May 30, 2005 16:10:05 GMT 1
Dont worry Stuttgater I expect we will al be made to keep voting till we give the right answer
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Post by barrynic on May 30, 2005 16:45:48 GMT 1
It's nice to see that smug smile wiped off the face of the corupt Chirac
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 30, 2005 19:45:32 GMT 1
not worried about the constitution, just wish Britain would join the euro
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Post by MartinB on May 31, 2005 7:52:42 GMT 1
not worried about the constitution, just wish Britain would join the euro Don't know whether we should join the Euro or not. I have never heard the arguments to make an informed decision. Only people taking sides and saying the other is wrong. I would love to know the pros and cons of changing.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 8:26:16 GMT 1
My main argument in favour of joining the euro is that it will stop banks ripping you off every time you go into Europe with changing currencies, either through commission charges, handling charges or by having the exchange rates set so they gain from you when you go out and when you come back and change surplus currency back.
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Post by MartinB on May 31, 2005 8:31:42 GMT 1
Ho wdo you feel about the fact prices of goods will rise in this Country when we change over?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 31, 2005 8:42:19 GMT 1
I was quite pro Europe a few years back but the more I read about it the more I think the politics are totally corrupt, the money is totally mispent and we put in a heck of a lot more than we take out
I pay taxes in this country so someone in Greece can grow grapes to make wine that they can't sell but they get paid anyway. There's something wrong with that.
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Post by harmerhillshrew on May 31, 2005 8:46:19 GMT 1
Should mean cheaper hols in Europe as the Euro will probably weaken vs sterling and the dollar - especially if the Dutch go the same route on Weds. Nothing much happened yet. Even Euro wannabee's like Turkey have seen no movement in the lira.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2005 11:58:40 GMT 1
2 Landslides and a third decent majority and Brown/Blair still have no plans to introduce the Euro.
I can't see the Euro being introduced into UK during the next 20 years.
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Post by siabod on May 31, 2005 12:05:35 GMT 1
What exactly have the French voted against?
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Post by Zatopec on May 31, 2005 12:12:21 GMT 1
What exactly have the French voted against? Civilisation..
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2005 14:13:13 GMT 1
My main argument in favour of joining the euro is that it will stop banks ripping you off every time you go into Europe with changing currencies, either through commission charges, handling charges or by having the exchange rates set so they gain from you when you go out and when you come back and change surplus currency back. Change your money at the post office - you don't lose out on much do you? Plus virtually everywhere is cheaper than Britain anyway.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 15:21:57 GMT 1
My main argument in favour of joining the euro is that it will stop banks ripping you off every time you go into Europe with changing currencies, either through commission charges, handling charges or by having the exchange rates set so they gain from you when you go out and when you come back and change surplus currency back. Change your money at the post office - you don't lose out on much do you? Plus virtually everywhere is cheaper than Britain anyway. It might be no commisssion at the PO but you still lose out on exchange rates
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 15:22:57 GMT 1
How do you feel about the fact prices of goods will rise in this Country when we change over? There's no reason why they should.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 15:24:48 GMT 1
What exactly have the French voted against? A treaty governing loads of different ways the countries in the EC trade and deal with each other. It was always a bit misleading to call it a constitution because it isn't. Nine countries, I believe, have ratified it so far and France is the first not to.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2005 15:52:03 GMT 1
Doesn't fuss me much. I lose a couple of quid when I go abroad, so be it, most places are cheaper than Britain anyway.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on May 31, 2005 15:55:20 GMT 1
I don't think the worl will end over £2.50 extra on my holiday in Europe
having a strong currency means my money goes further anyway
In Portugal we ate out, supped on a few superbocks and travelled around on public transport for about a tenner a day
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Post by MartinB on May 31, 2005 16:01:06 GMT 1
How do you feel about the fact prices of goods will rise in this Country when we change over? There's no reason why they should. Prices did rise when we switched to decimal in the 70's. Greece certainly noticed a price rise on the conversion to the Euro. It was a combination of rounding prices up and people not knowing what the exact conversion was so they accepted price rises.
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Post by Blue 44 on May 31, 2005 16:54:21 GMT 1
What exactly have the French voted against? A treaty governing loads of different ways the countries in the EC trade and deal with each other. It was always a bit misleading to call it a constitution because it isn't. Nine countries, I believe, have ratified it so far and France is the first not to. very true but its also true that only France and Spain have asked the people what they think My main complaint about the EC is that it is anti democratic
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 17:00:03 GMT 1
but its also true that only France and Spain have asked the people what they think My main complaint about the EC is that it is anti democratic That isn't the EC being undemocratic. The EC has left it up to each country how they decide, whether to do it through government or referendum. If the EC had insisted on referendums then there would have been loads of complaints about it interfering in the sovereignty of the individual countries. That some countries have chosen to have the decision made by elected representatives rather than referendum reflects on the democracy of those individual countries not the EC as a whole. Would you prefer the EC called an EC wide referendum on the issue? I doubt it.
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Post by Blue 44 on May 31, 2005 17:21:38 GMT 1
No Steve I would have preferred each sovereign country to ask its electorate I expect we know many didnt because they were afraid of the answer they may get You are not saying are you there is no democratic deficit in the EC are you? As a trading block and economic union I am in favour of the EC (though its possible to exagerate its benefits ) but as political bureacracy its becoming more & more remote from its people & I suspect the French and probably the Dutch votes will reflect that a lot of people including commissioner Mandelson ( he who had to resign TWICE from government are getting rich at EC taxpayers expense
and before you ask I dont think iut has kept the peace in Europe for 60 years I think that NATO did that
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 17:28:44 GMT 1
Of course there are democratic problems with the EC, as there are democratic problems within each country within the EC. All I am saying is you can't blame the EC because some of its members chose to let their parliaments make the decision on the treaty rather than going to a referendum.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on May 31, 2005 17:30:52 GMT 1
and before you ask I dont think iut has kept the peace in Europe for 60 years I think that NATO did that On the Nato question, I am in favour of scrapping Nato and the removal of US troops from European soil. I think our government should demand the removal of all US bases in Britain whatever, though I can't see Bush's lapdog Blair doing anything so bold.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2005 17:35:56 GMT 1
I pay taxes in this country so someone in Greece can grow grapes to make wine that they can't sell but they get paid anyway. There's something wrong with that. Just in the same way that paying a larger amount of tax if you earn over £100,000 in this country to fund someone else would surely be wrong?!?!?
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Post by rob on May 31, 2005 18:37:46 GMT 1
From what i've seen and read just as many french people voted "non" as a poke in the eye to Chirac as they did because they actually didnt want the constitution. As for no war in Europe for 60 years, surely that had more to do with a fine level of balance held between the US and Soviet Union in a bipolar system as it did because of anything the EC/EU did. Being such a large entity and a relatively new one, it will take a great many years before things settle down and take shape and start running completely efficiently. It doesnt help that certain newspapers bleat on about losing ones soverignty etc... offering misinformed propaganda. The real sticking point will be when/if the EU wishes to have a say/influence over the individual member states foreign policies. Expect it to be kicking off in your daily mail big style then
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Post by SP on Jun 1, 2005 9:56:15 GMT 1
ye, but isn't blair scrapping the referendum on the EU constitution thing anyway?
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