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Post by shrew54 on May 21, 2011 9:02:20 GMT 1
My only comment on this post is that this season has seen a vast improvement on last season, with better players and better football. Our inconsistency at times let us down, and I think last nights match summed up our season, so near and yet so far. If we improve in the same way again next season we should have a good shot at promotion. IN GT we trust
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Post by Shrewed on May 21, 2011 9:35:12 GMT 1
Liam, it is true I am not a great believer in the playoff system, but unfortunately thats the system we have and we have to live with it.
Paul you must be the only town fan who fails to recognise how ineffective we have been in central mid field over the majority of the last three years. Maybe Wroe and Davis were an improvement over what went before them, but their performances particular in the last two games clearly shows to many fans they are not the long term answer.
We need midfielders who will dominate the centre of the park, who are not afraid to tackle and back up the forwards. Maybe a midfielder who could take corners and free kicks would help.
Anyone who believes that the Town's tactics in the two playoff games were good must have little knowledge of the game. We played directly into Torquay's strengths hoof the ball down the centre and let Branston believe Christmas came early. We drop off all the time allowing Torquay the space to play, they closed us down at every opportunity, we have failed all season with corners and seem clueless with free kicks in dangerous positions.
I my opinion the seasons league was one of the poorest in many season it was an ideal opportunity to get promoted we failed and there needs to be a major overhaul of the team for next season and also the introduction of an attack minded coach to the club.
Shrew54 I suggest you look at last seasons team or the previous seasons team and consider how many of the current team would replace Button, Herd, Tierney, Davies, Holt, Coughlan, Murray, Humphrey unfortunately we had a very poor manager at the time.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 9:44:27 GMT 1
Liam, it is true I am not a great believer in the playoff system, but unfortunately thats the system we have and we have to live with it. Paul you must be the only town fan who fails to recognise how ineffective we have been in central mid field over the majority of the last three years. Maybe Wroe and Davis were an improvement over what went before them, but their performances particular in the last two games clearly shows to many fans they are not the long term answer. We need midfielders who will dominate the centre of the park, who are not afraid to tackle and back up the forwards. Maybe a midfielder who could take corners and free kicks would help. Anyone who believes that the Town's tactics in the two playoff games were good must have little knowledge of the game. We played directly into Torquay's strengths hoof the ball down the centre and let Branston believe Christmas came early. We drop off all the time allowing Torquay the space to play, they closed us down at every opportunity, we have failed all season with corners and seem clueless with free kicks in dangerous positions. I my opinion the seasons league was one of the poorest in many season it was an ideal opportunity to get promoted we failed and there needs to be a major overhaul of the team for next season and also the introduction of an attack minded coach to the club. Shrew54 I suggest you look at last seasons team or the previous seasons team and consider how many of the current team would replace Button, Herd, Tierney, Davies, Holt, Coughlan, Murray, Humphrey unfortunately we had a very poor manager at the time. I take your point Ed...sort of...but ... where in the table did the teams with Herd, Davies, Holt etc finish? Which division were we playing in the following year? You are criticising GT's tactics and coaching ability - yet his team, which by your own admission is weaker than other teams in the last few seasons, has finished with the clubs highest points total in 17 years, just missing out on automatic promotion - which is something we've not even been within a sniff of in all that time.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 9:46:31 GMT 1
Paul you must be the only town fan who fails to recognise how ineffective we have been in central mid field over the majority of the last three years. Maybe Wroe and Davis were an improvement over what went before them, but their performances particular in the last two games clearly shows to many fans they are not the long term answer. Now where did I mention being happy with our cent mid for the last 3 seasons So you agree Wroe and Davies are an improvment Long term, Davies is going back so we will have to do something in the Summer. I am happy to start next season with Wroe and one other
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on May 21, 2011 9:48:41 GMT 1
Hard to believe watching us last night that we were the wave of an idiot linesman's flag away from automatic promotion.
The only consolation I can find from not going up is the fact that we would have come straight back down again on last nights showing. You've got players like Davis boasting they can play at a higher level but i'd suggest he needs to as someone suggested look at a replay of last nights match and give himself a rethink.
You have to go back to what GT said pre-season to find out what the objectives of the club were, and as I remember it was with a mixture of youth and loanee's build something geared towards promotion. Now that would have been achieved if it wasn't for Wigglesworth but would it have happened to soon anyway because if we get shown up by teams that we are supposedley leaving behind, in this case Torquay then would we really have faired that well up a level. Having said that it's only GT's first season back and maybe the building of something stronger would be better done down in league 2 than getting mauled week in week out in league1.
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Post by shrewswolf on May 21, 2011 10:00:48 GMT 1
Just not good enough over the two legs, agreed. But 2 points off 2nd and we want a major overhaul? be realistic. Whilst the league next season will be stronger, with 2-3 top quality signings, rather than an unneeded 7, 8 or 9, we will be stronger too and will be a match for most in the division. Have a feeling Wycherley will throw his money at it again, spending sensibly Turner has achieved 4th place, Roland will I'm sure for the next few days be considering where we could go with the amount Simpson had to spend.
An interesting summer to come! Whilst dissapointed now and down that we are spending yet another year in league two, I can't be arsed with a team that 'needs time to gel' when already here is a team that have challenged all season, come the summer we'll all be together again in thinking it will be our season.
COYB.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 10:04:29 GMT 1
But 2 points off automatic ... COYB. 1 point. (Although it might as well have been 21.)
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Post by onthetrain92 on May 21, 2011 10:05:31 GMT 1
Of course they were good enough its just that our team wasn't suited to play against Torquay in a way that a team like Rotherham were. Each team in this division is capable of beating eachother. If it wasn't for bad luck, hence that Wrexham crest must still be under the centre circle, we would have gone up and maybe even won the damn league.
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Post by shrewswolf on May 21, 2011 10:13:21 GMT 1
But 2 points off automatic ... COYB. 1 point. (Although it might as well have been 21.) Oops, meant to say 2 points off second place. Which I'd never considered before, makes it all the more frustrating!
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Post by Jonah on May 21, 2011 10:34:10 GMT 1
Of course they were good enough its just that our team wasn't suited to play against Torquay in a way that a team like Rotherham were. Each team in this division is capable of beating eachother. If it wasn't for bad luck, hence that Wrexham crest must still be under the centre circle, we would have gone up and maybe even won the damn league. Never heard not being good enough being called not suited to play against before.
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on May 21, 2011 10:41:39 GMT 1
Of course they were good enough its just that our team wasn't suited to play against Torquay in a way that a team like Rotherham were. Each team in this division is capable of beating eachother. If it wasn't for bad luck, hence that Wrexham crest must still be under the centre circle, we would have gone up and maybe even won the damn league. Agreed we've had no luck (Wigglesworth decision the tip of the iceberg) but I can't help thinking would we really have been good enough in League 1 when you consider our hit and miss midfield and set piece frailities. Nothing that can't be put right though and i'd agree with the idea of no wholesale changes needed.
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tlw1987
Midland League Division Two
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Post by tlw1987 on May 21, 2011 10:45:58 GMT 1
People can easily argue that this playoff tie shouldn't he even happened. It could have been Wycombe V Gillingham. That phantom goal which would have seen us promoted and the fact that Torquay were only deducted 1 point whereas Hereford were deducted 3 for the exact same offence in the same game which would have seen them finish outside the playoffs. Have no idea what the FA were thinking with that decision there.
But at the end of the day, we need to take the positives from this season and move on. It's not the end of the world. All we can hope for is that we'll come back stronger next year.
On a personal level, one of my grandparents passed away yesterday afternoon so it puts it all into perspective that losing in the playoffs, is gutting yeah, but it's not the end of the world, there's always next year. Keep the faith, we'll bounce back from this.
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Post by shrew4life on May 21, 2011 10:50:18 GMT 1
When I saw this thread I thought it was going to be about Matt Harrold!
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Post by geoffwhiting on May 21, 2011 11:29:08 GMT 1
Walsall fan here, in peace I assure you. I'm a regular visitor to your lovely town, and I'm gutted for you guys after seeing last night's result. I was really looking forward to next season and renewing our near-neighbour matches that have been missing from our fixture-list for far too long.
I was convinced that Shrewsbury would be the strongest of the four play-off teams and emerge as the team promoted to League One. Even at 2-0 down from the first leg, I really thought you'd do it in the second leg, so it's a sad day for you, and for a lot of Saddlers' fans too, that we're not going to have another "local" team back in our division next season.
In truth, we were close to going the other way and only just survived, but I'd much rather we lock horns again in League One than League Two, so good luck for next season and here's hoping that GT can guide the team to promotion next time around.
Catch you on here from time to time next season guys, and all the very best for 2011/12.
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Post by Amsterdammer on May 21, 2011 12:31:18 GMT 1
Deja vu. Big overhauls are exactly how Peters and Simpson responded to failing in the play-offs and look what happened in the following season. Turner's team finished 11 points or so better off than the teams from 07 and 09, that should be enough said. I was thinking about the best in 17 years point above. Let's face it we were due a play-off semi defeat. There seems to be a lot of promise for next year - Taylor, Grandison, Bradshaw, Collins, Leslie(?) and Smith can only get better. A few peripheral players are out-of-contract, they can be moved on and hopefully replaced with better. From my 5-match Meadow/TV perspective, we need a new engine, not a new car. Plus Elder will be back.
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Post by Liam on May 21, 2011 14:00:05 GMT 1
Liam, it is true I am not a great believer in the playoff system, but unfortunately thats the system we have and we have to live with it. Indeed it is and indeed we do. That wasn't my point, however, and you know it. Having argued with him for years, you appear to be taking a leaf out of heavenlyshrew's book all of a sudden and not answering awkward questions. That's twice now you've dodged the same one. By your own argument, the play-offs are a travesty, and the team that finishes fourth always deserves to be promoted. With this in mind, I take it you will be forced to concede that we deserved to go up this season? Having conceded this, I take it you'll also concede we've played well, been unlucky and performed very credibly this season? (I look forward to reading the logical contortions that will allow you to avoid doing any of the above, btw )
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Post by ssshrew on May 21, 2011 14:32:01 GMT 1
"and the team that finishes fourth always deserves to be promoted".
Well they certainly should have been this year. A concession by the FA due to a complete muck up by two of their employees!!!!!
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Post by Shrewed on May 21, 2011 14:47:46 GMT 1
Liam,yes if all was fair we should have gone up, however under the current rules we did not deserve to be promoted, for two games we failed to turn up.
I would not go as far to say we played well we performed in patches and were equally poor in others, have we been unlucky I don't know not sure as I can judge not see even half the games but I am sure there are decisions that have gone our way.
At the end of the season we failed mainly through our inconsistency and because we could not perform against the top teams.
The team did exceptional well against the bottom half teams getting 50+ points out of 72 but against the top half sides we failed to get 30 out of 66. Those figures say something about the team
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Post by Liam on May 21, 2011 17:35:49 GMT 1
Ah, I see, Ed. So we did, in fact, deserve to be promoted over 46 games, with our highest points total in 17 years, and in a season where we've achieved this in spite of the manager having had less than 12 months to rectify one of the most tedious and unimaginative squads in the club's entire history? This notwithstanding, however, you nevertheless also feel that.... The town have demonstrated again tonight that we just aren't good enough to gain promotion. They are a slightly better than average second division side.... .....and won't be renewing your season ticket. A bizarre time to make such a decision, given the dross you've happily paid for recently, and the fact this has been our best performance since 1994 and the present manager is an established club legend who you've seen achieve success before, who has transformed the squad without spending a great deal in 10 months and who is on the record as saying he believes further improvement is needed and attainable.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 21, 2011 18:00:30 GMT 1
For every person like Ed there will hopefully be someone else who caught the footballing bug this season and will go from casual supporter to full time supporter. Missing out on autos then losing in the play-offs was a painful double blow but w even with the odd person bizzarly deciding it wasn't good enough for them we won't see a major attendance change.
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Post by Shrewed on May 21, 2011 18:07:00 GMT 1
Liam, just because we got 79 points does not by any imagination mean we have the best team since 94. One thing that is clear is that we have done well against the weakest teams which has not always been the case but have failed to average much more than a point against the top teams in the league.
It is a fact that under the current rules we were not good enough to get promoted just look at the two playoff games.
As for my season ticket if you had read the complete statement I did say that football was not the only reason I was unlikely to buy a season ticket. The number of games I am likely to see will also have a bearing. Therefore comment regarding fixture list.
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Post by Optimistic Shrew on May 21, 2011 19:25:49 GMT 1
For every person like Ed there will hopefully be someone else who caught the footballing bug this season and will go from casual supporter to full time supporter. Missing out on autos then losing in the play-offs was a painful double blow but w even with the odd person bizzarly deciding it wasn't good enough for them we won't see a major attendance change. Agree, hopefully that will be the case. In a way I'm glad he's not renewing his season ticket. The Greenhous Meadow could do without negative old grumpy men like him there constantly getting on the players back. Posts are all negative and he states other people don't have a good knowledge of football if they don't agree with the WUM. I am fully expecting another promotion push next season and unlike some people, I will be looking forward to it. GT is the man to take us up. COYB
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Post by Shrewed on May 21, 2011 19:59:20 GMT 1
For every person like Ed there will hopefully be someone else who caught the footballing bug this season and will go from casual supporter to full time supporter. Missing out on autos then losing in the play-offs was a painful double blow but w even with the odd person bizzarly deciding it wasn't good enough for them we won't see a major attendance change. Do you really believe that many who have watched the town on sky or were there last night will suddenly decide to part with £200 +. Interesting the average attendance for each of the four seasons at the new ground has been 5650 plus or minus 200 hardly a significant change because of results. It is a pity that you and optimistic shrew are unwilling to admit that the towns season was a failure because of two very poor performances in the last week. The fact we finished fourth will have no bearing come august we will be one of 24 teams on zero points and with at least 5 or 6 new players in the squad.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 21, 2011 20:05:12 GMT 1
For every person like www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-computer001.gif[/imgEd there will hopefully be someone else who caught the footballing bug this season and will go from casual supporter to full time supporter. Missing out on autos then losing in the play-offs was a painful double blow but w even with the odd person bizzarly deciding it wasn't good enough for them we won't see a major attendance change. Do you really believe that many who have watched the town on sky or were there last night will suddenly decide to part with £200 +. Interesting the average attendance for each of the four seasons at the new ground has been 5650 plus or minus 200 hardly a significant change because of results. It is a pity that you and optimistic shrew are unwilling to admit that the towns season was a failure because of two very poor performances in the last week. The fact we finished fourth will have no bearing come august we will be one of 24 teams on zero points and with at least 5 or 6 new players in the squad. Exactly my point. Our fan base has stayed at a decent consistent level since the move to a new stadium despite people who have been regulars not going so much anymore. New fans come through, it's only natural, and the better the team is and the better games they watch the more likely they are to come back. I suppose to put it bluntly what I am trying to say is go next season or not, you're not likely to be missed! Hopefully not too many share your attitude though... If you're going to be as black and white as success and failure then depending what you set your expectations as then maybe we did fail. But personally I've had a very enjoyable season, doing some cracking away games with some cracking results along the way. Of course I'm disapointed we didn't find an extra point from somewhere but it was still an enjoyable season for me personally which is why I'll be back. If you've lost that spark then fair enough, but from you're posts it seems like you lost the enjoyment factor years ago!
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 20:11:32 GMT 1
You can put what ever spin you like but ultimately our objective for this season has not been achieved, and I think GT will see it that we have failed (even if it was assisted by a linesman's error)
Saying that progress has most certainly been made, but I think GT is hurting with the failure, and like a wounded animal will look to strengthen the squad to the extent of not only gaining promotion but to also have a good shot of promotion from L1 as well the season following next.
I think SCS, Disley, McIntyre, Leslie, Neal, Hooman will not be back
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 21, 2011 20:14:47 GMT 1
You can put what ever spin you like but ultimately our objective for this season has not been achieved, and I think GT will see it that we have failed (even if it was assisted by a linesman's error) Saying that progress has most certainly been made, but I think GT is hurting with the failure, and like a wounded animal will look to strengthen the squad to the extent of not only gaining promotion but to also have a good shot of promotion from L1 as well the season following next. I think SCS, Disley, McIntyre, Leslie, Neal, Hooman will not be back If SCS goes I will be most surprised and disapointed.
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Post by Shrewed on May 21, 2011 20:44:22 GMT 1
If you're going to be as black and white as success and failure then depending what you set your expectations as then maybe we did fail. But personally I've had a very enjoyable season, doing some cracking away games with some cracking results along the way. Of course I'm disapointed we didn't find an extra point from somewhere but it was still an enjoyable season for me personally which is why I'll be back. If you've lost that spark then fair enough, but from you're posts it seems like you lost the enjoyment factor years ago! Nothing to do with spark more to do with experience over 50 years supporting the town. During that time my emotions have covered the full spectrum. NowI can look at the team without needing an emotional kick from the game. Actually if truth be known I enjoy it more like this, than when Saturday afternoon's result affected my mood after 4.40. Now I can watch two teams, hoping the town will win but able to view the game in a dispassionate way. I can listen to others views without resorting to personal insults because my view of the game, player or season is different to theirs. One question i'd ask is do you think in 10 years you'll remember many of the games or players of this season. Not sure how long you've supported the town but would any of the team this season make it into the team of the last decade, in my view none. But yet they got the most points since 1994, two possible reasons a good team spirit or a poor division - my view is the reason is probable a bit of both.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 20:45:19 GMT 1
You can put what ever spin you like but ultimately our objective for this season has not been achieved, and I think GT will see it that we have failed (even if it was assisted by a linesman's error) Saying that progress has most certainly been made, but I think GT is hurting with the failure, and like a wounded animal will look to strengthen the squad to the extent of not only gaining promotion but to also have a good shot of promotion from L1 as well the season following next. I think SCS, Disley, McIntyre, Leslie, Neal, Hooman will not be back If SCS goes I will be most surprised and disapointed. I think SCS has been one of our more consistent players this season, and i would certainly be surprised if he was not kept on.
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Post by Optimistic Shrew on May 21, 2011 21:19:46 GMT 1
In response to Ed's 2 posts.
Ok. Promotion has been the aim for GT but many of us would have settled for the Play Offs after last seasons catastrophe, GT has transformed the club, every manager has their flaws. He is not perfect but I believe he is the man to take us forward. Why if it was a disappointing season why most people stayed to applaud the players after the Oxford match in their lap of honour? compared to last season when they came out and did it in front of one man and his dog.
This season was not a failure, I've enjoyed many, many games this season. I admit that we were very very poor over the two legs like everybody else. We deserved promotion over 46 games put not over 2 games if you get my drift.
In response to your other post:
One question i'd ask is do you think in 10 years you'll remember many of the games or players of this season?
Player: Ian Sharps
Match: Shrewsbury 4-3 Charlton for a starter.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 22, 2011 14:10:09 GMT 1
There are statements that are repeated at the end of every season, one being that the league was weak and will be stronger next season. Well, the core of our team will be available next season and I have faith that GT will make the 3/4 signings that will make us a top 3 team next time.
Another oft repeated (by me) is that the skill of a manager is to blend a team so that the whole is more than the sum of the parts, so I find the soap opera like emphasis on individual players overblown - it's a team game as the Holt/Davies all stars proved.
I've enjoyed this season more than any other we've had at the new ground (not saying much I know) and believe we're well placed to make further progress next season.
PS. On the subject of memorable players, when we have threads about all time best teams we have problems finding a worthy left back, now we can nominate Matt Saddler.
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