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Post by grinfish on Mar 18, 2011 18:51:00 GMT 1
another football topic from matron ?? Does it matter? (I almost said "Why would anyone come to an STFC forum to talk about football?")
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Mar 18, 2011 21:20:17 GMT 1
I did start to write a long answer to some of the points raised, but started to bore myself.
So, here's a short version.
1. If companies and rich individuals paid their taxes there would be no funding problems. See Tax Research UK for the missing £16 billion in unpaid taxes. See also Vodafone etc.
2. Prosperous people buy a good education, even a state education - I live in a grammar school area and have seen how they do it.
Oxbridge is dominated by public school pupils because of their influence with the colleges and because their pupils are taught how to work the system. Shrewsbury School, for instance, costs £32k a year, so you'd expect to get the advantages that buys.
The fees hike will just make an unfair situation worse.
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Post by MarkRowley on Mar 18, 2011 23:55:50 GMT 1
TBH pretty much hits the nail on the head in all areas he has covered from my perspective
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2011 10:41:26 GMT 1
another football topic from matron ?? swissshrew, 16 posts, 15 moaning about my non football threads. what a malcontented "individual" * Edited to remove swear filter bypass sorry.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 19, 2011 20:11:14 GMT 1
TBH. Just a quick question or two if you don't mind, but how much debt did you incur at Uni and how much debt do you think that the average earning parent should encourage their kids to build up following their education?
I think it was the Shropshire Tenor that mentioned the drawbridge being pulled up and that's how we see it for our daughter and we are genuinely worried about her educational future and the debts that will follow it.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 19, 2011 20:33:33 GMT 1
TBH. Just a quick question or two if you don't mind, but how much debt did you incur at Uni and how much debt do you think that the average earning parent should encourage their kids to build up following their education? I think it was the Shropshire Tenor that mentioned the drawbridge being pulled up and that's how we see it for our daughter and we are genuinely worried about her educational future and the debts that will follow it. I don't underestimate your concern. And I apologise if anything I have said sounded flippant. We're due our first child in July and I don't have £27,000 spare either. My student debt was just over £6,000. When I started paying it back it was over £100 a month because you had to pay it back in five years. My wife's was over £12,000 but payable back over her working life so it works out quite a lot less per month. The maths done by people like Loyalshrew on this thread show how debt / earnings can be worked out. The bottom line is that this system will certainly make people choose specific career paths earlier. So how much debt a student should take on must correlate with their future earnings potential. It is a personal decision based on the benefits they hope to get from that particular course.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 21:50:31 GMT 1
One thing I'm interested in to know people's opinions on.
If a graduate tax was introduced instead, and graduates had to 9% tax on earnings over £21k they earn. Would people see this as fairer? There would be no 'debt' as such in this case, but payments would be made on all earnings until retirement.
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Post by grinfish on Mar 20, 2011 22:02:37 GMT 1
One thing I'm interested in to know people's opinions on. If a graduate tax was introduced instead, and graduates had to 9% tax on earnings over £21k they earn. Would people see this as fairer? There would be no 'debt' as such in this case, but payments would be made on all earnings until retirement. It would push more top graduates towards leaving the country on a permanent basis I should think. If they enter the higher earnings bracket, they'd effectively be "Super Tax"ed. Also, could such a proposition be made and enacted retrospectively? I'd be rather gutted to find out that the Class of '09 just had a couple of loans to pay off, and my hypothetical 21 year old who is about to accept their diploma gets rewarded with a lifetime of earning less for proving more of themselves.
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Post by creature on Mar 20, 2011 23:12:23 GMT 1
One thing I'm interested in to know people's opinions on. If a graduate tax was introduced instead, and graduates had to 9% tax on earnings over £21k they earn. Would people see this as fairer? There would be no 'debt' as such in this case, but payments would be made on all earnings until retirement. graduate tax is a terrible option, and certainly not on the figures you mention! As others have mentioned, those who benefit financially from Uni pay it back as higher rate earners. Those who don't pay top rate tax such as teachers, nurses are usually in vocational degrees and go on to put more back through the nature of their work.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 9:34:22 GMT 1
One thing I'm interested in to know people's opinions on. If a graduate tax was introduced instead, and graduates had to 9% tax on earnings over £21k they earn. Would people see this as fairer? There would be no 'debt' as such in this case, but payments would be made on all earnings until retirement. here's a thought. if we must charge people to go to university (a whole new topic for debate) why not make them pay extra tax until the debt is payed off? it seems so distastefull to me that not only are we charging people for an education, but we also seem to want to make money out of them by charging interest and now apparently, by charging an early repayment fee if students some how manage to find a way to get rid of this debt. if they incur fees of whatever then i think they should only pay back that fee, not an extra 9% until you die in tax or x% in interest on the loan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 10:14:39 GMT 1
Matron, Creature1, grinfish - I agree with your thoughts.
It's interesting that all political parties now have similar thinking on this.... what are we missing?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 21, 2011 10:16:56 GMT 1
It's interesting that all political parties now have similar thinking on this.... what are we missing? Just over £150bn a year
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 10:18:35 GMT 1
Matron, Creature1, grinfish - I agree with your thoughts. It's interesting that all political parties now have similar thinking on this.... what are we missing? all political parties have similar thinking? yeh what am i missing?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 21, 2011 10:20:59 GMT 1
I think a "Graduate tax" is the worst of all options because it penalises people even after they have effectively paid the money back. That makes no sense and will make it highly desirable to get a good UK degree then do one to Australia / Canada and earn a mint there instead.
Or they'll go to a top uni in Belgium to do a course in English that costs them £1000 a year.
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