oranjemob
Midland League Division One
Posts: 486
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Post by oranjemob on Feb 7, 2011 18:08:48 GMT 1
Hi Heavenly,
Genuine question here and one that I would be really interested in your response to.
In another thread when someone intimated that the EDL should be confronted, you made the comment “so what about freedom of speech”. A very valid point. However, would you agree that this should include freedom to follow your religion and assemble in peaceful law abiding groups?
I ask this because recently, in Deeside (an area very familiar to me) a disused Social Club mysteriously burned down.
The building was going to be used as a Cultural Centre for the local Muslim Community and the ‘accident’ followed closely on the heels of a ‘visit’ from a delegation from the EDL.
This particular Group are peaceful, with no history of extremism or connections with militant Islamists. Indeed the Centre would have been available to all, either/or for groups to use individually or collectively.
I believe that the EDL deny any racist motives and are only interested in keeping terrorists off our streets. A noble mission which, I’m sure all of us would applaud. However, I’m not sure what these law abiding British citizens have done to bring the wrath of our defenders down, so heavily, on their heads.
Whilst I’m not accusing you of being a member of this, or any other, Group you do appear to have some sympathy with some of their ideals so, in the light of this, your comments would, quite honestly, be welcomed.
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Feb 7, 2011 18:47:43 GMT 1
If you are going to ask me a question can you please make sure it is no longer than 3 lines,or else i get bored and cant be bothered to read it all as this is what has happened in this case
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Post by Mike on Feb 7, 2011 18:57:54 GMT 1
disused Social Club mysteriously burned down. the ‘accident’ followed closely on the heels of a ‘visit’ from a delegation from the EDL Maybe you should pass this conculsive evidence on to the police. I'm sure it would be enough to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the EDL were responsible
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Post by heavenlyshrew on Feb 7, 2011 19:02:52 GMT 1
disused Social Club mysteriously burned down. the ‘accident’ followed closely on the heels of a ‘visit’ from a delegation from the EDL Maybe you should pass this conculsive evidence on to the police. I'm sure it would be enough to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that the EDL were responsible Making statements like that show you lack alot of common sense,as Mike said you should pass on any info to the local police and not post it on a football message board. I hope that helps.
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Post by Shrewed on Feb 7, 2011 20:06:35 GMT 1
Martin for once come out and condemn racist behaviour, you always claim not to be racist well here's a chance for you to demonstrate your commitment to multiculturalism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 20:13:33 GMT 1
Martin for once come out and condemn racist behaviour, you always claim not to be racist well here's a chance for you to demonstrate your commitment to multiculturalism. What evidence is there to suggest this is racist? To the original poster, have the police said they think its racist or have any evidence to suggest its a racist attack? Also, you said "closely on the heels of a ‘visit’ from a delegation from the EDL" can I ask what that means? Did some senior EDL figures come along and visit the site? Was there some sort of protest? Or did a few local scallies come along and chat "E, E, E-D-L" a few times?
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Feb 7, 2011 20:15:18 GMT 1
I see the pitchfork-wielding B&A Anti-fascist lynch mob are out again
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Post by froggy on Feb 7, 2011 20:16:19 GMT 1
If you are going to ask me a question can you please make sure it is no longer than 3 lines,or else i get bored and cant be bothered to read it all as this is what has happened in this case quite a straight foreword question to be honest, i'm sure a question of more than 3 words goes beyond your reading capability?
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Post by gmo on Feb 7, 2011 20:17:38 GMT 1
Heavenly is turning into the new ned for you all to bully!
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Feb 7, 2011 20:18:05 GMT 1
If you are going to ask me a question can you please make sure it is no longer than 3 lines,or else i get bored and cant be bothered to read it all as this is what has happened in this case quite a straight foreword question to be honest, i'm sure a question of more than 3 words goes beyond your reading capability? Says he with 4 errors in a one line post.
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Post by Mike on Feb 7, 2011 20:21:02 GMT 1
If you are going to ask me a question can you please make sure it is no longer than 3 lines,or else i get bored and cant be bothered to read it all as this is what has happened in this case quite a straight foreword question to be honest, i'm sure a question of more than 3 words goes beyond your reading capability? There wasn't really a question though was there?
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Post by Shrewed on Feb 7, 2011 20:26:01 GMT 1
Heavenly is turning into the new ned for you all to bully! Heavenly has spent the last two years pushing BNP propaganda now he seems to be supporting the EDL, it is not surprising that his views should be questioned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 20:32:22 GMT 1
Heavenly is turning into the new ned for you all to bully! Heavenly has spent the last two years pushing BNP propaganda now he seems to be supporting the EDL, it is not surprising that his views should be questioned. Can I just question the statement "now he seems to be supporting the EDL, it is not surprising that his views should be questioned" If he is pushing propoganda then people have every right to question that, espcially when it comes to things like the BNP, EDL etc because of their very nature. However if he just says he supports the EDL, BNP or anyone else, why do you or anyone else have the right to question that? Surely he is entitled to his opinion? Normally when Islamic extremist threads appear (eg the poppy burning ones), most posters have the attitude of we live in a democracy so people are entitled to their opinions, regardless of how distateful they are. So by that logic Heavenly, or anyone else is entitled to say they support the BNP, EDL etc?
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Post by Amsterdammer on Feb 7, 2011 20:34:01 GMT 1
you should pass on any info to the local police are you suggesting he should grass?
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Post by bertymax on Feb 7, 2011 20:38:36 GMT 1
Heavenly is turning into the new ned for you all to bully! Heavenly has spent the last two years pushing BNP propaganda now he seems to be supporting the EDL, it is not surprising that his views should be questioned. Regardless of his political views, the guy is just excercising his freedom of speech in the same way others on here seem to like to do...alot.
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Post by d00bie on Feb 7, 2011 22:45:21 GMT 1
Martin for once come out and condemn racist behaviour, you always claim not to be racist well here's a chance for you to demonstrate your commitment to multiculturalism. You know what I think you're the only person Thats committed to multiculturism in the world ever, because certainly the immigrants who live here aren't. You can stick your multiculturism where the sun don't shine, it's never worked and never will, even in over tolerant Britain!
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Post by Shrewed on Feb 7, 2011 23:44:52 GMT 1
Martin for once come out and condemn racist behaviour, you always claim not to be racist well here's a chance for you to demonstrate your commitment to multiculturalism. You know what I think you're the only person Thats committed to multiculturism in the world ever, because certainly the immigrants who live here aren't. You can stick your multiculturism where the sun don't shine, it's never worked and never will, even in over tolerant Britain! History actually proves that multiculturalism does work, but that it takes time, education and economic development. Multiculturalism will only continue to develop if all sides work together and that extremists on all sides are isolated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 23:46:34 GMT 1
Works for me and my family Doobie. One of my sisters is married to an Indian (albeit they're both quakers), the other to a Canadian and my brother dates a Russian - and then there's me living with a brummie, the most multicultural relationship of the lot Also have a very diverse work place with many nationalities and religions - all get on with them superbly and play footy each Tuesday (when STFC aren't playing) with a bunch of Indian lads - absolute mad as hatters but thoroughly good blokes. I've never felt that having any non-Brits or people of other religions (not really sure about that one given I'm not sure if there's a god or not!) or races around me has ever negatively effected my life and I dare say that if anything I find myself in situations where it's people many would describe as British indidgedous that are p**sing me off. However, I recognise people's lives are very different and opinions and experience vary considerably too - especially with media coverage of the extremists from all religions/ races/ cultures often dominating the news (wouldn't it be a very different news programme if the good people made the headlines!). Can I ask what it is in particular that makes you believe multiculturism has not/ will never work in Britain?
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Post by SY3 on Feb 8, 2011 1:43:58 GMT 1
Can I ask what it is in particular that makes you believe multiculturism has not/ will never work in Britain? I was once told i couldn't walk down a street in Brum because i am white, and i would get stabbed. I can't imagine that was the intention behind multiculturalism.
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Post by Stewie Shrew on Feb 8, 2011 1:52:29 GMT 1
If I could possibly do something I would, that would be move Shrewsbury into the centre of Birmingham for the day and tell everyone to get on with it, sorry to say this but Shropshire has so many small minded people who think the world ends in Sunny Shropshire...news for yer it certainly does not I remember the Birmingham/Salop league cup tie a few years back, I was sat in the blues end as part of a bet with the then gf who is a bluenose and was thinking to myself grow up when a section of the Town support starting shouting "your just a town full of paki*".....was totally and utterlly embarrassing to hear The EDL are a bunch of thugs, seen what they did in Dudley last year, totally pathetic. I actually live near a pub where they have meetings, you can hear them outside on a summers night singing their racist crap and sadly the local Indian community sadly also have to hear it too ....wrong so wrong
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Post by jamo on Feb 8, 2011 8:54:19 GMT 1
You can stick your multiculturism where the sun don't shine, it's never worked and never will, even in over tolerant Britain! That is a very strange comment to make Doobie., It has worked very successfully for centuries in this and other countries.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 9:20:53 GMT 1
Great post AT I feel this thread is a bit of a witch-hunt. Oranjemob makes many good posts - but I feel the start to this thread is unfair as it uses a rumour about EDL antics (as stated I fail to see why the police have not been involved if this is so much fact). On multiculturalism - it does work, but not for everyone. I live in Tower Hamlets, where over 60 languages are spoken and the majority of people get on fine. Some cultures keep themselves to themselves, most integrate freely. The main problem here is education. People tend to be scared with the unknown and more needs to be done to help educate others of the cultures/religions etc that they may experience in different parts of the country.
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Post by Victoria on Feb 8, 2011 11:18:53 GMT 1
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poirot
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 243
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Post by poirot on Feb 8, 2011 11:28:34 GMT 1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 11:36:28 GMT 1
not sure what the good point is as the wiki article is far too long for me to be bothered with, but i personally consider australia one of the most racist countries on earth. however, and in the interest of balance (Ant) i would also quote australia as a good example of what can go badly wrong with immigration if those arriving marginalise the indigenous population, as white australians have with the aborigines. kind of ironic really considering how tough they are now about immigration and protecting their culture.
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Post by Victoria on Feb 8, 2011 11:48:27 GMT 1
however, and in the interest of balance (Ant) i would also quote australia as a good example of what can go badly wrong with immigration if those arriving marginalise the indigenous population, as white australians have with the aborigines. I think you'll find that was the British.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 12:07:23 GMT 1
Yes, when reading back I think you're correct. I was a little too harsh on Oranjemob in this instance, hands held up on my part.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 8, 2011 12:18:47 GMT 1
Martin for once come out and condemn racist behaviour, you always claim not to be racist well here's a chance for you to demonstrate your commitment to multiculturalism. So by condemning racist behaviour demonstrates a commitment to multiculturalism? How does that work then? Everyone against multiculturalism is a racist? That can't be right that...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 12:29:36 GMT 1
however, and in the interest of balance (Ant) i would also quote australia as a good example of what can go badly wrong with immigration if those arriving marginalise the indigenous population, as white australians have with the aborigines. I think you'll find that was the British. yep, the british started it (no big suprise there)and the white australians continue to do it.
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Post by Jonah on Feb 8, 2011 14:22:27 GMT 1
Australia says NO - Second Time she has done this! AMAZING You must read it !!!! She's done it again.. She sure isn't backing down on her hard line stance and one has to appreciate her belief in the rights of her native countrymen.. A breath of fresh air to see someone lead. I wish some leaders would step up in Canada & USA . Australian Prime Minister does it again!! This woman should be appointed Queen of the World.. Truer words have never been spoken. It took a lot of courage for this woman to speak, what she had to say for the world to hear. The retribution could be phenomenal, but at least she was willing to take a stand on her and Australia's beliefs. The whole world needs a leader like this! Prime Minister Julia Gillard - Australia Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law, were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.. Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.' 'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom' 'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!' 'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.' 'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.' 'This is, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all of this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.' 'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.' Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves in Canada & USA , We will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths Thought you would appreciate this Heavenly Shes not wrong is she?
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