oranjemob
Midland League Division One
Posts: 486
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Post by oranjemob on Feb 5, 2011 15:24:42 GMT 1
But in answer to the cynicism that he is trying to cover up economic difficulties: he was at an international conference on security and extremism, so he was unlikely to talk about tuition fees and tax credits. Yes. Of course you're right and I do understand. However, there will be many aspects to the agenda and I don't think it was necessary to put across such a hard-line view, particularly as he only focused on extremist threats that come from Islam. I also doubt if any other 'mainstream' politician who speaks will make the argument in such a polarizing manner and one which points the finger at only one of several sources of extremism facing the UK. I agree that it would be little bizarre to speak about internal policies at this forum but do feel that he has deliberately chosen to pitch his rhetoric where he knows it would cause controversy and slant the debate away from his domestic woes. Good debate though
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Post by nicko on Feb 5, 2011 18:41:17 GMT 1
So state multiculturalism has failed (I wonder what Hindus, Sikhs and Jews et al think of that) but then Cameron goes on to talk about one extremist cultural group.
'Muscular Liberalism' Thats a new one to add to 'difference-blind liberalism' the 'autonomy argument' and the 'unequal impact argument'.
A National Identity? We'll be 'inventing traditions' next....oh wait.
Ok fight extreme terrorist groups but why say multiculturalism has failed?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 5, 2011 18:54:13 GMT 1
There is a huge difference between being a multiracial society (which we are, and should be)
and the political force of multiculturalism, which is what he is referring to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2011 19:08:45 GMT 1
So state multiculturalism has failed (I wonder what Hindus, Sikhs and Jews et al think of that) but then Cameron goes on to talk about one extremist cultural group. 'Muscular Liberalism' Thats a new one to add to 'difference-blind liberalism' the 'autonomy argument' and the 'unequal impact argument'. A National Identity? We'll be 'inventing traditions' next....oh wait. Ok fight extreme terrorist groups but why say multiculturalism has failed? What is the definition of multiculturalism being successful? I would assume that it is people of all colours and faiths living side by side in harmony or is that too simplistic? If it is that which I must admit that I would class it as, then I can see how you would argue that it has failed. My personal experience of multiculturalism is limited having lived in Shrewsbury all my life but I know people who have lived or continue to live in some of the bigger cities plus areas such as Bradford & Oldham. Their experience of multiculturalism is that people may work along side each other and the relevent town/city centres may seem all is well, however in reality people of different colours and religions go home to their own areas and live completely separate lives. In my eyes that is multiculturalism failing I have no doubt that there will be some parts of the country that see people of all colours and religions living side by side, however there are also parts where there is a lot of 'tension' between people in different communities. The last time I visited some friends in Oldham a few years ago I was warned about walking in certain directions from the train station as I was likely to be targeted by local asian gangs because of the colour of my skin. Before someone tries to make out that Im steroytyping certain communities, I realise that it is a tiny proportion and the majority of them decent people who are just trying to lead a normal life like me. The reason why groups like the BNP and EDL have grown is that some people in this country see racist/extremist muslim groups and the perception is that the government/police do very little about them for fear of upsetting the muslim community. It may well be rubbish and fuelled by certain elements of the media, however because of the silence from the government then people feel alienated and then turn to the likes of EDL, BNP etc. That is why the speech from David Cameron has surprised everyone although if Im honest I fully expect him to back down when hes back in the country, especially to Baroness Warsi
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2011 23:15:18 GMT 1
I've read the full text of the speech and it's intellectually sterile.
Just unbelievable that this guy is running the country really.
I'm interested Dave in describing the EDL's "success". What does that mean?
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Feb 5, 2011 23:18:51 GMT 1
I hear the official supporters coach stopped at Corley motorway services this morning and suffered a nasty moment or two as the OSC coach unknowingly parked between 2 coaches full of EDL 'thugs' all dressed in black and wearing England masks who were on their way to protest in Luton.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 5, 2011 23:30:22 GMT 1
I'm interested Dave in describing the EDL's "success". What does that mean? The EDL have been successful at recruiting people to their cause by filling a vacuum of political fear of talking about the concerns that many "normal" people have. David Cameron sticks his head over the parapet and instantly the head of the Ramadan foundation is criticising him for not also talking about the EDL, and gave it as yet another example of Muslims being "singled out". No-one from the Ramadan Foundation has ever complained when the BNP / EDL have been lambasted by politicians without also mentioning Islamic extremists.
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Post by nicko on Feb 6, 2011 7:21:41 GMT 1
There is a huge difference between being a multiracial society (which we are, and should be) and the political force of multiculturalism, which is what he is referring to. But they're closely linked and always will be. hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1976/oct/04/motor-cycle-crash-helmets-religiousCameron has used the blanket cover of multiculturalism to attack to particular group. It's wrong and sinister.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 6, 2011 9:37:16 GMT 1
I've read the full text of the speech and it's intellectually sterile. Just unbelievable that this guy is running the country really. I'm interested Dave in describing the EDL's "success". What does that mean? Unfortunately most of the condem policies are similarly badly thought out and are (my opinion) going to have massive impacts on this country. The whole big society idea seems based on a 1950s view of Britain For someone who had a privileged education Cameron is really very uneducated and lacks understating of key issues
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Feb 6, 2011 12:34:32 GMT 1
The Prime Minister talks of 'the weakening of a clear collective British cultural identity'.
Bearing in mind that supporters of the EDL feel justified in threatening a coach party because their bus bears a dragon logo, can anyone explain what the 'collective British cultural identity is'?
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Post by shrewsace on Feb 6, 2011 12:48:07 GMT 1
He's got a cheek talking about a 'collective identity' when his government is pursuing the most divisive and socially damaging policies since Thatcher.
Although perhaps they'll inadvertantly unite us all in opposition to his government and their ludicrous 'Big Society' project.
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Post by nicko on Feb 6, 2011 13:44:08 GMT 1
The Prime Minister talks of 'the weakening of a clear collective British cultural identity'. Bearing in mind that supporters of the EDL feel justified in threatening a coach party because their bus bears a dragon logo, can anyone explain what the 'collective British cultural identity is'? One that has embraced all sorts of different cultures over the centuries and enjoys a good Balti as one of its national dishes. Talking of Cameron. He was on BBC News the other week saying how he understands what people are going through in these tough times. It got me to thinking whether his piggy bank was raided as a child so enough coppers could be gathered together to put 50p in the leccy meter. I doubt it.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Feb 6, 2011 15:13:04 GMT 1
when his government is pursuing the most divisive and socially damaging policies since Thatcher. Interesting point, and of course Mr Cameron is not perfect. He should however distance himself from the racist pillocks that form the EDL clearly and completely. Yet I feel that the unlimited entry for Europeans is and will have a massive impact (socially) in the future, and of course the indefensible wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which IMO have done more long lasting damage between Muslims and the others who reside in this land. Further to this ex Prime-minister Blair was stating two weeks ago that the west should take action over Iran, endgame is Cameron may not be doing a good job in this area (or any other) but there are IMO many more influencing factors in the equation.
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oranjemob
Midland League Division One
Posts: 486
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Post by oranjemob on Feb 6, 2011 15:51:52 GMT 1
when his government is pursuing the most divisive and socially damaging policies since Thatcher. Interesting point, and of course Mr Cameron is not perfect. He should however distance himself from the racist pillocks that form the EDL clearly and completely. Yet I feel that the unlimited entry for Europeans is and will have a massive impact (socially) in the future, and of course the indefensible wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which IMO have done more long lasting damage between Muslims and the others who reside in this land. Further to this ex Prime-minister Blair was stating two weeks ago that the west should take action over Iran, endgame is Cameron may not be doing a good job in this area (or any other) but there are IMO many more influencing factors in the equation. So left and right can unite There can be no underestimating the damage cause by the Bush/Blair illegal war in the 'islamification' of young muslims throughout the world and the UK is no exception. Lots of issues contribute to the concerns about the current cultural diversity but the legacy of Blair has made any problem incalculably worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 20:12:43 GMT 1
I'm interested Dave in describing the EDL's "success". What does that mean? The EDL have been successful at recruiting people to their cause by filling a vacuum of political fear of talking about the concerns that many "normal" people have. If that's success, then I can live with that. Their impact will be limited to defining the future for the BNP. Nothing more. Totally irrelevant. Wonderful post by ShropshireTenor.
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