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Post by onthetrain92 on Jun 28, 2010 15:30:45 GMT 1
Mikael Arteta has lived here 5 years come July 15th and therefore eligible to play for England after that date. Could he be what England is missing in midfield? I see Germany have done this with certain players born in Poland and Turkey.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 15:45:05 GMT 1
No thanks, there's enough debate going on about whether we should have a foreign manager in charge of England, forget having foreign players aswell.
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jg484848
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Post by jg484848 on Jun 28, 2010 15:59:19 GMT 1
Have to agree, however far Germany go they've done it with a high percentage of "Foreigners"
Cacau - Brazilian Podolski - Polish Klose - Polish Ozil - Turkish
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Post by mrbunny on Jun 28, 2010 16:07:56 GMT 1
Better than what we have in the side but whether the fans could accept a Spaniard in the team i don't know.
I'd have him in now personally as the guy is a class act but would he want to anyway?
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Post by salopianed on Jun 28, 2010 16:14:51 GMT 1
No thanks, there's enough debate going on about whether we should have a foreign manager in charge of England, forget having foreign players aswell. It's quite ironic given that the newly successful England cricket team contains several foreign players as well as a foreign coach.
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Post by mrbunny on Jun 28, 2010 16:18:16 GMT 1
No thanks, there's enough debate going on about whether we should have a foreign manager in charge of England, forget having foreign players aswell. It's quite ironic given that the newly successful England cricket team contains several foreign players as well as a foreign coach. The difference is they show passion for the shirt when they are on the pitch.
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 16:36:34 GMT 1
See, it goes back to the "passion" and "playing for the shirt" nonsense. That's why Britain is so bad at football, we concentrate on that whilst other nations concentrate on technique and being better at football, that's why they're so far ahead of us.
The reason why everyone is up on arms about yesterday is that Germany are technically better than England, full stop. Are you seriously trying to say Arteta wouldn't improves England's midfield? Unless the coaching styles and methods changes in this country we'll never improve, simple as that.
If you want a Shrewsbury example take Kelvin Langmaed. A Town man at heart, played for the jersey and was a big hit with the fans. Yet when his move to Peterborough came about we were discussing with the signing of Sharps and SCS that he'd struggle to get into the team. Others pointed out some major flaws to his game and that he'd struggle in League One, although that is remain to be seen, and I wish him all the best.
The point I'm trying to make is that the passion thing isn't the most important thing if you want to be competitive at the highest stage. Give anyone on this forum a Shrewsbury strip and we'd play our hearts out every week. Doesn't mean we're any good.
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Post by mrbunny on Jun 28, 2010 16:39:00 GMT 1
See, it goes back to the "passion" and "playing for the shirt" nonsense. That's why Britain is so bad at football, we concentrate on that whilst other nations concentrate on technique and being better at football, that's why they're so far ahead of us. The reason why everyone is up on arms about yesterday is that Germany are technically better than England, full stop. Are you seriously trying to say Arteta wouldn't improves England's midfield? Unless the coaching styles and methods changes in this country we'll never improve, simple as that. If you want a Shrewsbury example take Kelvin Langmaed. A Town man at heart, played for the jersey and was a big hit with the fans. Yet when his move to Peterborough came about we were discussing with the signing of Sharps and SCS that he'd struggle to get into the team. Others pointed out some major flaws to his game and that he'd struggle in League One, although that is remain to be seen, and I wish him all the best. The point I'm trying to make is that the passion thing isn't the most important thing if you want to be competitive at the highest stage. Give anyone on this forum a Shrewsbury strip and we'd play our hearts out every week. Doesn't mean we're any good. Point i am making is that our players are quite good but if they don't care which a few didn't seem to in this World Cup then what is the point.Arteta is better than anything we have and i'd love him in the side.Just think the Little Englanders would hate it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 16:42:27 GMT 1
No thanks, there's enough debate going on about whether we should have a foreign manager in charge of England, forget having foreign players aswell. It's quite ironic given that the newly successful England cricket team contains several foreign players as well as a foreign coach. I didn't say it'd be a bad thing having Arteta in the squad, I just don't think we should become a National team with foreign players. I don't agree with it, I think everybody will have their own view on that though.
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 16:47:53 GMT 1
See, it goes back to the "passion" and "playing for the shirt" nonsense. That's why Britain is so bad at football, we concentrate on that whilst other nations concentrate on technique and being better at football, that's why they're so far ahead of us. The reason why everyone is up on arms about yesterday is that Germany are technically better than England, full stop. Are you seriously trying to say Arteta wouldn't improves England's midfield? Unless the coaching styles and methods changes in this country we'll never improve, simple as that. If you want a Shrewsbury example take Kelvin Langmaed. A Town man at heart, played for the jersey and was a big hit with the fans. Yet when his move to Peterborough came about we were discussing with the signing of Sharps and SCS that he'd struggle to get into the team. Others pointed out some major flaws to his game and that he'd struggle in League One, although that is remain to be seen, and I wish him all the best. The point I'm trying to make is that the passion thing isn't the most important thing if you want to be competitive at the highest stage. Give anyone on this forum a Shrewsbury strip and we'd play our hearts out every week. Doesn't mean we're any good. Point i am making is that our players are quite good but if they don't care which a few didn't seem to in this World Cup then what is the point.Arteta is better than anything we have and i'd love him in the side.Just think the Little Englanders would hate it. Quite good is no where near good enough if you want to win international tournements. Little Englanders = Scotland? Obviously we'd love to have Arteta to be available, when he was at Rangers he was one of the best players Scotland's seen for decades. Scotland had the chance to have Nacho Novo in the squad (not sure what happened to that actually) and I'd snap him up in a second. The debate on international eligibility goes deep - where in the family line should the buck stop? James McCarthy has an Irish grandad or something like that and that's why he is allowed to play for them but other than that is completely Scottish - the same with Aiden McGeady.
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Post by mrbunny on Jun 28, 2010 16:55:54 GMT 1
Point i am making is that our players are quite good but if they don't care which a few didn't seem to in this World Cup then what is the point.Arteta is better than anything we have and i'd love him in the side.Just think the Little Englanders would hate it. Quite good is no where near good enough if you want to win international tournements. Little Englanders = Scotland? Obviously we'd love to have Arteta to be available, when he was at Rangers he was one of the best players Scotland's seen for decades. Scotland had the chance to have Nacho Novo in the squad (not sure what happened to that actually) and I'd snap him up in a second. The debate on international eligibility goes deep - where in the family line should the buck stop? James McCarthy has an Irish grandad or something like that and that's why he is allowed to play for them but other than that is completely Scottish - the same with Aiden McGeady. Wasn't calling you a LE but there are many who would say he shouldn't be picked. I am not a big fan of players picking and choosing but if he is available he would easily improve the team.
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Post by rglenshrew on Jun 28, 2010 17:06:10 GMT 1
Quite good is no where near good enough if you want to win international tournements. Little Englanders = Scotland? Obviously we'd love to have Arteta to be available, when he was at Rangers he was one of the best players Scotland's seen for decades. Scotland had the chance to have Nacho Novo in the squad (not sure what happened to that actually) and I'd snap him up in a second. The debate on international eligibility goes deep - where in the family line should the buck stop? James McCarthy has an Irish grandad or something like that and that's why he is allowed to play for them but other than that is completely Scottish - the same with Aiden McGeady. Wasn't calling you a LE but there are many who would say he shouldn't be picked. I am not a big fan of players picking and choosing but if he is available he would easily improve the team. As I say unless we treat our home grown players differently then the only way to improve the ability of the squad would be to go down the route Arteta might for England.
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Post by monkee on Jun 28, 2010 17:16:49 GMT 1
If the rules allow it, why not? if someone moves here when they are 13 and is called up to the England squad, nobody would make a fuss, why should it be any different with adults?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 17:28:46 GMT 1
Have to say I wouldnt want it, even if it did bring success
I might sound old-fashioned and some might go as far to say xenophobic but to represent a country you should simply be born there or have moved there at a very young age so were raised there
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Post by onthetrain92 on Jun 28, 2010 18:00:33 GMT 1
Lets be honest Arteta aint gonna ever get in the Spain squad unless Everton get in the Champions League which I don't think is gonna happen in the next 2/3 years by which time the likes of Rodwell, Coleman, Gosling, Baxter, Duffy, Beckford, Wallace and Joao Silva should start coming really good/peaking and David Moyes's so called future golden team starts to gel and take over. By this time Arteta would be 31 and probably too late for him Internationally. Don't forget John Barnes was Jamican and got loads of flack in 1984 until he scored that amazing winner in Brazil against Brazil. I think if its acceptable now in Germany then we may as well take advantage of the situation now. Normally I would be against it but there is no chance of any of Britain's national teams or sportstars all being indigenous any more aka 1966. We have seen it in boxing, cricket and rugby we have even seen it in football as ealry as back in the 80's with John Barnes and more recently with Hargreaves. Arteta won't make any difference and rules are rules this day and age, 5 years is 5 years. If he wants to then let him, Zidane was Algerian BTW not French.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 28, 2010 18:16:55 GMT 1
No. Arteta was a Spanish under 21 international. For me, that should mean he can't play for England.
There's a big difference between that and John Barnes coming to England as a schoolboy.
Germany are being successful in bringing through players with different ethnic backgrounds (Boateng was missed off the list above) but I don't think any of those had established himself in representative football for another country.
In the modern world it's impossible to insist on only "true blooded" nationals playing for their country. The world's changed. I've no problem with "changing" nationality up to, say, under-19 level. But there should be a general rule that, if a professional player is eligible for more than one country, there's no going back once he's made his choice. I'd set that rule for under-21 and senior levels.
Agree entirely with rglenshrew - I don't want an England team of passionate, tearful badge-kissers, I want an England team that plays good football with confidence and authority. Leave the "passion" to the fans.
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Post by shrew4life on Jun 28, 2010 19:06:25 GMT 1
No way! There would bound to be a few in the dressing room who would very much disagree with him being there.
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Post by madrigal on Jun 28, 2010 20:06:00 GMT 1
Yeah and i'm sure John Terry is amazingly popular in the dressing room. Beg him to play. Morons going on about passion and not caring are part of the problem. Of course they care, they're just not good enough technically or mentally.
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Post by onthetrain92 on Jun 28, 2010 20:16:04 GMT 1
Our country is that ****ed up and mixed up now anyone could play for England, I don't think Mikael Arteta would make much difference to the way most people will think in England over the next 10-20 years.
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Post by capitalsalopian on Jun 28, 2010 20:23:17 GMT 1
Mesut Özil: born 15 October 1988 in Gelsenkirchen! pretty german if you ask me!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 20:35:16 GMT 1
In the modern world it's impossible to insist on only "true blooded" nationals playing for their country. The world's changed. Yes it has changed and when it comes to eligibility for international sport, not for the better in my opinion Why is it impossible to insist on players who were born or raised in that country? Ok it may mean we lose out on potentially better players but international sport is supposedly about representing your country - it shouldnt be about players playing for another country because they arent good enough for their own The Ghana/Kevin Boatening thing was a prime example. He is born in Germany, raised in Germany, played at various German ages but then basically isnt good enough for the final squad so switch's his allegience to Ghana. He may have Ghanian heritage but he was born in Germany and raised there, his only option should be to play for Germany. How would you feel if you are a Ghanian player who has helped his country qualify for the world cup but loses his place to a player who tried to play for someone else but then used Ghana as a back-up? Its obviously not just football but across a number of sports, cricket being a complete farce when it comes to elgibility. People moan about the England team being underminded by the Premiership and various things, well things like this completely de-value it in my opinion
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 21:08:16 GMT 1
Klose has a german father and i believe lived in germany since the mid 80s
Podolski has german anscestery and has lived in germany since the late 80s.
Ozil was born in germany.
More of a claim to the national shirt than a canadian midfielder schooled in german born of uk parent....
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Post by Dale on Jun 28, 2010 21:23:58 GMT 1
Have to agree, however far Germany go they've done it with a high percentage of "Foreigners" Cacau - Brazilian Podolski - Polish Klose - Polish Ozil - Turkish Boateng is of Ghanaian heritage (his half brother is the Ghana player Kevin Prince), Gomez is of Spanish heritage, there is even a emerging young German international by the name of Aaron Hunt who is half English! The German team is more multicultral now than its ever been. Would Arteta even want to take up a UK passport and play for England? This suggestion has been raised with Almunia and Cudicini before.......
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2010 22:07:01 GMT 1
I find it very hypocritical that some don't want the likes of Arteta in the squad but don't bat an eyelid over arguably the most important person in the setup, the manager, being foreign.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jun 29, 2010 0:05:22 GMT 1
If he wants to apply for a passport then he has that right, and it is at the discretion of the home secretary if it is granted. If granted then he becomes available for selection, and it is up to the manager if he wants to use him. Those are the rules of our country and FIFA and that is all that matters. May be moot though, as it was reported the other day that he has asked Everton to let him return to Spain.
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Post by mikejones on Jun 29, 2010 0:57:00 GMT 1
Arteta is easily good enough to improve the England team. Muzzy Issett played for Turkey with the same qualification's as Ozil for Germany and arguably around the same as Arteta for England. However a new goalkeeper, guess who ?, Dawson and Jagielka in central defence, no Lampard and little Gerrard are bound to improve matters. Milner in central midfield a place for Cole creating, all help, I would be reluctant to include Arteta but there is definitely room. His qualification day is St Swithin's would it open the floodgates. Incidentely the England Cricket team have been captained by men born on all five continents. Freddie Brown in Peru and Jardine in Sydney are the less obvious skippers.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 9:43:58 GMT 1
Muzzy izzett born in Turkey?
Ozil has more of right to play for Germany than Arteta.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 29, 2010 9:53:29 GMT 1
Some of the points on this thread are a bit fuzzy.
My Parents are welsh, both born and bred in Wales.
I was born in England, and have always lived in England, but for 9 months in wales and 2 and a half years in West Africa.
I consider myself English, and have been to a world cup and a european championship to follow England.
Ozil is as German as I am English. The only difference being he has a foreign sounding name and brown skin. The German / Poland relationship is very confused with loads of Poles in Germany and loads of Germans in Poland.
The MP for Shrewsbury is "Polish" by the definition some people are using: even though he was brought up in the UK, was educated in the UK, and serves in government in the UK but he has a foereign sounding name.
Sol Campbell was born in London to Jamaican parents. Defoe was born in London to a St Lucian Mother and a Dominican Father. Lennon's family has Jamaican descent. Rio Ferdinand is mixed English / Irish and St Lucian descent.
I just can't see the issue.
With Arteta it is different: if they move for work, gain citizenship and then somehow "Transfer" that is one thing. But being born in a country, and growing up in a country is entirely different.
If Ozil played for Turkey people would accuse him of not being willing to "integrate".
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Post by der kaiser on Jun 29, 2010 10:50:33 GMT 1
It's quite ironic given that the newly successful England cricket team contains several foreign players as well as a foreign coach. I didn't say it'd be a bad thing having Arteta in the squad, I just don't think we should become a National team with foreign players. I don't agree with it, I think everybody will have their own view on that though. Ahem! Owen Hargreaves.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2010 11:02:56 GMT 1
I didn't say it'd be a bad thing having Arteta in the squad, I just don't think we should become a National team with foreign players. I don't agree with it, I think everybody will have their own view on that though. Ahem! Owen Hargreaves. He's actually got English parents though hasn't he?
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