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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 17:26:17 GMT 1
Post by mattmw on Apr 26, 2006 17:26:17 GMT 1
You can debate the pro’s and con’s of immigration, religion and nationality and the BNP until the cows come home, but the truth of the matter is that even if the BNP won a landslide victory at the next general election, they could do little to change things.
The world is a massively different place to what it was 50, or even 20 years ago. Travel between countries is easier than it has ever been, and advances in communication like the internet make national boarders a pretty obsolete idea. The idea of “halting” immigration is a great one to get the masses talking, but in practical terms it’s a complete none starter. You’d need immigration check points on every section of our coast line and holiday makers coming back from abroad would be subjected to massive delays while their “origin” was checked out. The affects on trade, business and tourism would also be huge.
I don’t think it would be a bad thing if the BNP did win seats at the local elections or even national elections. After a few months in charge it would soon be seen that their policies would be a completely unworkable and economic suicide.
I many respects I feel a bit sorry for the BNP/right wing view point expressed here and in the press. They seem scared and apprehensive about the future and seem want to retreat into a self contained world where nothing different or new exists. To an extent that is something your recent governments have failed to respond to.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 17:29:10 GMT 1
Post by shrewslander on Apr 26, 2006 17:29:10 GMT 1
Anti immigration protests at Trafalgar Square in June! You going in fancy dress Dand
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 17:34:41 GMT 1
Post by tom_leather on Apr 26, 2006 17:34:41 GMT 1
Going back to the origins of this thread, I would rather live in a nation with a government I completely disagreed with on al lkey issues, than with a government who claim they do not believe in the 'myth of human equality'. I seriously question the sanity of anyone who can knowingly vote for a party that preaches this.
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Deleted
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 17:50:02 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2006 17:50:02 GMT 1
a small minority have moved to the countries you mention, thats because of the EU and besides i have no problem with people coming here to do a proper professional job and interact and respect our main religion and our cultures,its the ones that don't i don't like! The thing is with some muslims not all, they don't respect our culture nor our religion, yet we are forced to try and respect theres well **** them i'll eat a bacon sandwich if i want in my own country! I think there were some valid points made on this board recently about posters being shown more respect regarding their points of view. You however Dand, are clearly a .
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:01:12 GMT 1
Post by WindsorShrew on Apr 26, 2006 18:01:12 GMT 1
.......an unjust war that has cost the lives of 100,000 Iraqi civllians and 103 of our sevicemen. Its actually 104, its probably best to get the simple facts right before crusading off to save the world. Oh and when I served my 24 1/2 years i was a serviceman. As I said get the little things right and the rest will fall into place.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:13:23 GMT 1
Post by blue 44 on Apr 26, 2006 18:13:23 GMT 1
I dont know lads, maybe about as often as women are either degraded in the Bible or shown in a negative light. Christianity, the religion of hypocracy sorry Rob but you have just demonstrated your amazing lack of knowledge abnout the Bible nothing personal as I dont know you but try reading it and discovering Jesus views on women he was there a long time before the siffragetes !
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:25:18 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 26, 2006 18:25:18 GMT 1
oh and then discover the old testamount, last time i checked it was part of the Bible. I probably know a bit more about the Bible then you'd think, having been a regular church goer for 15 years and studied christian philosophy upto university first year standard Mary magdeline is one of the most marginalised female figures in history, a women of the night according to many interpretaions of the Bible, when in actual fact it says she had inner demons... Also talks of raping a virgin, its ok so long as you go onton marry her and keep her as a wife. Genesis, was it Lott who offered up his two daughters to settle a debt to the baying mob? Eve hardly comes out of the open couple of verses well does she Then there is the backward view preached in Africa, that using a condom actually spreads the HIV virus, trotted out by the RC church The colusion of the Christian church with the NAzis during the 1930s so as to save their own arses... No religion is faultless, all religions at some point get hijacked by extremests. My point is dont throw stones when you live in a glass house It also shows that the Bible, just like the Koran is full of contradictions
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salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:27:19 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 26, 2006 18:27:19 GMT 1
[quote Oh and when I served my 24 1/2 years i was a serviceman. .[/quote] Err?
Thanks for correcting me Windy -it is indeed 104. I trust that you'll be taking some of your own advise and correct or at least explain the above sentance- I'm not sure that I understand it mate. As you've said - get the little things right!
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handsoffmeadowenjoyment
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:36:16 GMT 1
Post by handsoffmeadowenjoyment on Apr 26, 2006 18:36:16 GMT 1
Did they moved to a overcrowded country? NO Where we 3rd world citizens moving to another country to drain its resources? NO We were part of a empire that ruled the world, we were explorers at the time as well as traders and invaders, we were attcaked for invading, now they are invading us and we are letting them do it. [glow=red,2,300]Its the 20th Century now, not the Victorian era.[/glow] We tried to help those countries with new technology, science etc. We visited and we were met with resistance. They are not helping us by invading us, what do they bring to our society apart from desease, anger, crime and most of all future genocide. They are feeding of us and it will be our destruction. So yes we migrated and made no mans land a country USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa. The size of those countries we havent exactly over populated them. Our little island is to overcrowded. We havent exactly overcrowded the middle east either, they done it themselves. Now there target is us for a place to live, well i wont stand for it!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:45:05 GMT 1
Post by skunkie on Apr 26, 2006 18:45:05 GMT 1
I dont support the BNP,but i to have concerns over the rising tide of immigration.Those of you living in Telford have you noticed the increasing amount of Africans in the area.over maybe two years we have seen a large increase around here,even Maxell?.was investigated for employing cheap illegal workers and found 15.Yes the people coming here have poor jobs and use the foot in the door to get money back home or bring people here.but the problem is that some people in their companys are getting very rich on using immagrants in things like reteraunts,taxis, farming, retail, cleaning and security work and as such are no better than the slave traders we tried to abolish in this country two hundred years ago.My concern of this country is it is using the polices of the far left and scare mongering the population to the policy of the far right,both being foriegn to the old style of British politics.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 18:52:23 GMT 1
Post by CuyahogaBlue on Apr 26, 2006 18:52:23 GMT 1
Going back to the origins of this thread, I would rather live in a nation with a government I completely disagreed with on al lkey issues, than with a government who claim they do not believe in the 'myth of human equality'. I seriously question the sanity of anyone who can knowingly vote for a party that preaches this. Hear Hear - policies, image, PR, facts, figures etc can be interpreted and debated, however, the BNP's core values are (imHo) reprehensible.
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salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 19:03:57 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 26, 2006 19:03:57 GMT 1
I dont know lads, maybe about as often as women are either degraded in the Bible or shown in a negative light. Christianity, the religion of hypocracy Again, modern Christians take their lead from the New Testament -Christ's mesage is one of forgiveness and love for your enemy. Although I'll admit that there is -and always has been, hypocrisy within the church itself. However, although Christianity forms much of the bedrock of British society, we are on the whole a modern, secular nation. Women in British society enjoy the same rights as men.We ditched the chastity belt a few centuries ago. But what does Islam have to say about women's rights? If a wife refuses to have sexual relations with her husband, it is permissible for the husband to physically beat her until she submits (Surah 4:34) The Koran actually permits - no, actually instructs it's male followers to rape women.But you only have to read about the Life of Muhammad and his army of bandits to see what part mass rape played during his conquest of 'the non-believers'. Anyone who can actually be bothered to find out about the true nature of Islam -will learn more about the Phrophet's 'love' of young girls .and no, I don't mean 'love' in the Christian sense. His favourite wife was a nine year old child! Some wise, gentle Prophet he was eh? ....... Some religion of 'peace and tolerance'!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 19:19:09 GMT 1
Post by blue 44 on Apr 26, 2006 19:19:09 GMT 1
oh and then discover the old testamount, last time i checked it was part of the Bible. I probably know a bit more about the Bible then you'd think, having been a regular church goer for 15 years and studied christian philosophy upto university first year standard Mary magdeline is one of the most marginalised female figures in history, a women of the night according to many interpretaions of the Bible, when in actual fact it says she had inner demons... Also talks of raping a virgin, its ok so long as you go onton marry her and keep her as a wife. Genesis, was it Lott who offered up his two daughters to settle a debt to the baying mob? Eve hardly comes out of the open couple of verses well does she Then there is the backward view preached in Africa, that using a condom actually spreads the HIV virus, trotted out by the RC church The colusion of the Christian church with the NAzis during the 1930s so as to save their own arses... No religion is faultless, all religions at some point get hijacked by extremests. My point is dont throw stones when you live in a glass house It also shows that the Bible, just like the Koran is full of contradictions sorry I upset you Rob but in reply to the above I would just repeat my last post Is it too late to get your tuition fees back
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 20:29:01 GMT 1
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 26, 2006 20:29:01 GMT 1
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Deleted
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 20:40:20 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2006 20:40:20 GMT 1
Anti immigration protests at Trafalgar Square in June! You going in fancy dress Dand
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 20:41:44 GMT 1
Post by polishkaz on Apr 26, 2006 20:41:44 GMT 1
salopboy... let me halt my disbelief at some of your posts for a moment as this is a genuine question, what version of the Koran are you using for your quotes?
Not to add fuel to the debate but the word you refer to (Adribu) from Surah 4:34 which i assume you have translated to mean strike or hit (which is perfectly understandable) actually has over 100 possible translations, and it is only because of the controversial Hadiths that some!!! have used this as justification for beating their wives. Of course this is wrong we would all agree on that. This is surely an example of ideological manipulation to serve as a justification for an immoral act or to prove that a certain religion is inherantly violent
Surely the solution then is to promote a multicultural society. Being from inner Birmingham I have grown up with a variety of different cultures, whilst most of you were probably offered fish fingers when you went round your friends houses i was give chapatis. Im also part Polish and have lived in Cyprus for a considerable period of time, so as you can imagine I've lived multiculturalism in its best and worst forms, and quite frankly I'd take it over a hegemonic society any day!
Cultures will clash, i refer you to Samuel Hunntingtons "Clash of Civilisations" a good read not just educational. However, this does not mean they are incompatable. It is the subject neglect of other cultures that i find to be the biggest problem as it promotes ignorance and fear. Try looking at it from another perspective because believe it or not we'v got it pretty good in this country and whatever problems we have, they cant be attributed the current governments immigration policy.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 20:44:01 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 20:44:01 GMT 1
so to cap it off.................what about the bnp then?
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 20:46:48 GMT 1
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 26, 2006 20:46:48 GMT 1
I dont know lads, maybe about as often as women are either degraded in the Bible or shown in a negative light. Christianity, the religion of hypocracy Ephesians 5 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." Maybe if men actually listened to this we wouldn't have spent the day debating the acts of male politicians. Would you like to point out to me Rob the blatant disrespect towards women there? That is thorough new testament teaching that you should be willing to die for your wife, loving her as yourself. Yes, there are plenty of stories in the bible of awful treatment of women, and men, in the historical texts. They are never given as examples of being the right thing to do, so to use them as that is totally inappropriate. One of the heroes of the Jewish nation was Rahab the prostitute, she even gets mentioned int he New testament book of Hebrews.. The only disciple who lived to old age was the one who looked after Jesus mother. The first people to see the risen Jesus were women. Godly women of the early Church like Lydia and Priscilla are highly praised by Paul and Peter. Esther even gets her own book! King David was slammed for being an adulterer. Sure, the ancient world had a very odd view of women and that is portrayed in the Old Testament but to confuse that with the teaching of the bible displays either that you haven't thought about it or you are just determined to be opposed to it.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 21:09:59 GMT 1
Post by ChrisJ nli on Apr 26, 2006 21:09:59 GMT 1
so to cap it off.................what about the bnp then? w****rs!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 21:18:26 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 21:18:26 GMT 1
so to cap it off.................what about the bnp then? w****rs! that mean they dont get your vote then?
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 21:32:36 GMT 1
Post by scooter on Apr 26, 2006 21:32:36 GMT 1
My first and last contribution to this thread - I don't like them and I won't be voting for them
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 22:03:07 GMT 1
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 26, 2006 22:03:07 GMT 1
Could a benefit (?) of increased votes for the BNP be that Griffin has his opinions, principles and record subjected to public examination by the likes of John Humphries or Jeremy Paxman?
And why is it the BRITISH National Party? People in Wales, Scotland and NI have their own parties to cater for their aspirations so I doubt whether anyone in those countries has the slightest interest in them.
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Deleted
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 22:21:54 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2006 22:21:54 GMT 1
Could a benefit (?) of increased votes for the BNP be that Griffin has his opinions, principles and record subjected to public examination by the likes of John Humphries or Jeremy Paxman? And why is it the BRITISH National Party? People in Wales, Scotland and NI have their own parties to cater for their aspirations so I doubt whether anyone in those countries has the slightest interest in them. 3% of the vote they got in the European Elections in 2004 in Wales, 1.7% in Scotland, with over 5% in England. Please, anyone considering voting for the BNPM go and read their manifesto and wonder whether you want to vote for people whose priorities include: "We will return to traditional police uniforms" "We will bring our troops back from Germany and withdraw from NATO" "The compulsory National Service system discussed elsewhere in this Manifesto would begin at the age of 18 with a period of basic training in the army. This would include full training with the citizens' assault rifle. - Conscientious objectors would not receive the right to vote" "The Royal Navy will police the territorial limit and prevent all foreign fishing fleets entering British waters by force if required. " "A relatively small number of the bureaucrats freed from shuffling tax forms would be redeployed as Customs Officers to guard all points of entry into the UK." "We will restore the married man's tax allowance" " We will eliminate nonsense subjects and reallocate funding and the time of pupils to traditional subjects like reading, writing, and maths" And of course, getting to the heart of the matter: "A Clause 28-style proscription against the promotion of racial integration in schools and the media would be introduced."
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 22:28:39 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 22:28:39 GMT 1
Could a benefit (?) of increased votes for the BNP be that Griffin has his opinions, principles and record subjected to public examination by the likes of John Humphries or Jeremy Paxman? And why is it the BRITISH National Party? People in Wales, Scotland and NI have their own parties to cater for their aspirations so I doubt whether anyone in those countries has the slightest interest in them. 3% of the vote they got in the European Elections in 2004 in Wales, 1.7% in Scotland, with over 5% in England. Please, anyone considering voting for the BNPM go and read their manifesto and wonder whether you want to vote for people whose priorities include: "We will return to traditional police uniforms" "We will bring our troops back from Germany and withdraw from NATO" "The compulsory National Service system discussed elsewhere in this Manifesto would begin at the age of 18 with a period of basic training in the army. This would include full training with the citizens' assault rifle. - Conscientious objectors would not receive the right to vote" "The Royal Navy will police the territorial limit and prevent all foreign fishing fleets entering British waters by force if required. " "A relatively small number of the bureaucrats freed from shuffling tax forms would be redeployed as Customs Officers to guard all points of entry into the UK." "We will restore the married man's tax allowance" " We will eliminate nonsense subjects and reallocate funding and the time of pupils to traditional subjects like reading, writing, and maths" And of course, getting to the heart of the matter: "A Clause 28-style proscription against the promotion of racial integration in schools and the media would be introduced." That'll be a NO from you then Gaz
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salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 22:54:54 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 26, 2006 22:54:54 GMT 1
salopboy... let me halt my disbelief at some of your posts for a moment as this is a genuine question, what version of the Koran are you using for your quotes? Not to add fuel to the debate but the word you refer to (Adribu) from Surah 4:34 which i assume you have translated to mean strike or hit (which is perfectly understandable) actually has over 100 possible translations, and it is only because of the controversial Hadiths that some!!! have used this as justification for beating their wives. Of course this is wrong we would all agree on that. This is surely an example of ideological manipulation to serve as a justification for an immoral act or to prove that a certain religion is inherantly violent Surely the solution then is to promote a multicultural society. Being from inner Birmingham I have grown up with a variety of different cultures, whilst most of you were probably offered fish fingers when you went round your friends houses i was give chapatis. Im also part Polish and have lived in Cyprus for a considerable period of time, so as you can imagine I've lived multiculturalism in its best and worst forms, and quite frankly I'd take it over a hegemonic society any day! Cultures will clash, i refer you to Samuel Hunntingtons "Clash of Civilisations" a good read not just educational. However, this does not mean they are incompatable. It is the subject neglect of other cultures that i find to be the biggest problem as it promotes ignorance and fear. Try looking at it from another perspective because believe it or not we'v got it pretty good in this country and whatever problems we have, they cant be attributed the current governments immigration policy. The quotations are from The Nobal Koran, English Translation 1998. Ever since 9/11 the media and political spin on Islam has nearly always been along the lines of ..... Islam is a religion of peace, similar to Christianity and it's teachings have simply been twisted by a small number of hardliners in order to further their own goals. - This is utter nonsense. All I ask is for people to do bit of research on Islam - the faith itself, it's history and it's place in the world today - before parroting the lies that they've heard or read. Unlike in the Bible most Koranic verses cannot taken other than literal. A true 'good' muslim is expected to follow these instructions to the word. The definition of a good muslim by our standards is certainly not the same as Islam's definition. Muslims all over the world who reject the call to jihad -apart from taking on the cultural trappings of the message and select the 'nicer' parts of Islam -fall into the secular category.I had a mate at school who fell into this group -he was into his music, football, girls etc - as Westernized as you could get.With such people, I've no problem whatsoever This category however, does not represent true Islam.Muslims such as my old schoolmate would also be classed as an 'infidels' in a true Islamic society. Then there are traditional muslims -people who study Islam, know and practice it -but stop short of fighting non belivers for various reasons - such as /concern for their families if they were to join a fundamentalist group /They don't have the ability to to take action themselves/ They simply don't want to die Last of all the fundamentalist muslims - These are the ones who perpetrate terrorism.Their goal is to practice Islam as Muhammad did- and although we call them radicals, they are practicing true Islam.
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salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 23:14:48 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 26, 2006 23:14:48 GMT 1
Going back to what I've already said before - It isn't ordinary individual muslims I have a problem with -it's the Islamic faith itself. Getting back to the thread - So far the BNP are the only party who've shown the courage to address this issue. -Another reason why they'd get my vote- Every other political party, most of the media (even the right-wing press) have ducked out an honest, open debate on Islam.They instead pick out a pantomime baddie such as Abu Hamza and blame him and a few hundred similar types for 'corrupting' the word of Islam -when in fact Hamza and Co are actually being true to their faith.
Could our politicians and media be so naive and misinformed about Islam that they actually believe their own rubbish -that they in turn dupe us (the British public) with? I doubt it!
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BNP
Apr 27, 2006 1:04:09 GMT 1
Post by Mr Right on Apr 27, 2006 1:04:09 GMT 1
"We will return to traditional police uniforms" <------The jolly old village bobby thats the spirit bash the chavs about teach them respect.
"We will bring our troops back from Germany and withdraw from NATO" <------not sure on this one, but still after all we a British.
"The compulsory National Service system discussed elsewhere in this Manifesto would begin at the age of 18 with a period of basic training in the army. This would include full training with the citizens' assault rifle. - Conscientious objectors would not receive the right to vote" <-------------sounds like common sense
"The Royal Navy will police the territorial limit and prevent all foreign fishing fleets entering British waters by force if required. "<--------- Again common sense, no nonsense why should we let people steal out fish.
"A relatively small number of the bureaucrats freed from shuffling tax forms would be redeployed as Customs Officers to guard all points of entry into the UK." <----------Best thing i've read.
"We will restore the married man's tax allowance"<------too right
" We will eliminate nonsense subjects and reallocate funding and the time of pupils to traditional subjects like reading, writing, and maths"<------------ Yes this is common sense
And of course, getting to the heart of the matter:
"A Clause 28-style proscription against the promotion of racial integration in schools and the media would be introduced."<-----The only thing i can suggest with this is we all like a good fight in school so i'm against this one.
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BNP
Apr 27, 2006 1:27:47 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 27, 2006 1:27:47 GMT 1
this Kaz knows his stuff, must be a fellow Politics man Dave yes i accept their was a rebellious element within Germany, but both the German Protestant and Catholic churches entered into concordats with Hitler in 1933. In 1941 the German Evangelical church gave its full public support to the use of these jews and their lies (by Martin Luther) and the racial policies of Nazi Germany. With the notable exception of a few Christian individuals, the German Christian churches remained silent as to the fate of the Jews, making no official statement denouncing their persecution. .. Hardly the actions you expect from organisations headed by moral leaders with God on their side We can look at the work of the RC church in Africa during the late 80s/90s And also their role in Latin America when they actively helped the political elite/military regimes crush Liberation Theology. Hardly a great track record at supporting the little man in his time of need looks to me more like a tool used and abused by regimes to justify their actions when persecuting sections of their own societies Not all churches are honkey modern places of worship. This new testament that you refere to, well not a fat whole lot of it gets practised in reality by a lot of Christians i have met.The church i have been brought up in is very Conservative and tbh are deeply backward, systematic with many Church of England churches. I would also like to point out, as i did at the end of my post, that i made those references, to make a point. The Bible can be attacked just as easily as the Koran. Its all down to interpretation
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BNP
Apr 27, 2006 8:15:08 GMT 1
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 27, 2006 8:15:08 GMT 1
Not all churches are honkey modern places of worship. This new testament that you refer to, well not a fat whole lot of it gets practised in reality by a lot of Christians i have met. well without the New Testament I can't see what you have to believe in. The life of Christ is the window through which what came before and what come after is judged. And yes any faith can be manipulated by a political regime, look at what Burma have done with Buddhism.
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BNP
Apr 27, 2006 13:28:40 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 27, 2006 13:28:40 GMT 1
so you agree with my other points then dave?
Anyhow back on track, from what i understand of their manifesto, if any other political party had these policies, they'd be lsughed out of politics, a GCSE student could come up with better
their economic policies are tantamount to economic suicide, their immagration policies aand policies about british jobs for british workers,self sustaining and self providing economy, national service for all, whilst pulling out of international agreements and and organisations and the "relocation" of foreigners really does bear a stark resemblence to Germany from 1933 and the polocies Hitler adopted...
I am surprised that more have not picked up on it.
Maybe those disenfranchised who vote for the BNP, whilst not being racists (noone ever is), are certanly very naive, very narrowminded and certanly fear change and the wider community that comes with change. Maybe they are just stupid.
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