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Post by wiganshrew2 on Dec 20, 2004 14:27:58 GMT 1
After reading what Gary Peters said on page 13 of the Fanzine and "A winning mentality" by Ian Jones- made me think a little.
Felt a bit guilty for leaving early after the match (Sorry, lads!) though I'd got toothache- and was not feeling100%, anyway- so can I be forgiven?
It can't get worse- with or without positive vibes. Maybe what turns a mistake -or a missed chance into a series of blunders could be sensing the anger and frustration of supporters? It's a shot in the dark, really- but maybe if we keep our nerve- the team would be better at keeping theirs?
It's entirely understandable- the hurt of the Conference season is still there- and it's looking dangerous. All we want to do is stay up. But maybe the worst thing we can do is give them stick as soon as they make the first mistake?
Ever worked in a place where every mistake is a hanging offence? In the end you find you lose your nerve and can't do a thing right.
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Post by stainesr on Dec 20, 2004 14:38:54 GMT 1
Some of the abuse shouted at the players from the riverside on Sat was appalling. We weren't winning but until Street's mistake we were still in the game. What's the point in abusing players, even if they are having a bad game? One guy totally had it in for Tolley, all he was doing was screaming profanities at him for most of the match until someone punched him and he shut up!
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Dec 20, 2004 14:48:58 GMT 1
one of the things I respect about Gary Peters was when he said he wanted the whole world to be against the team - so if the other team are cheating and refs giving our fouls, instead of arguing and confronting, just walking away instead and re-grouping and getting stronger
I fondly remember being on the Stretford End watching Man U v Southampton. It was 1-1. Man U were awful, but for literally the whole of the second half everyone and I mean everyone was singing Alex Fergusons Red Black White Army. There were roars when Giggs went forward but after the applause the chant continued. Eventually I think Mark Hughes scored. Alex after said it was the fans who had won the game, making the stadium a fortress.
I know its hard to make noise when things are bad, but I have posted before saying I respect Sunderland and Toon Army fans, as despite the goings on the support is amazing... unlike Wolves who if not 1-0 after 15 mins the crowd turn.
Its like being in a relationship - when things are fab they are amazing but its hard and people see true colours when people start to need support and people being there for one another.
nice post wiggy
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Post by HowiesLeftHand on Dec 20, 2004 15:58:37 GMT 1
I think you make a valid point there Wiganshrew when the first goal went in on Saturday the atmosphere was one of resignation to an inevitable defeat right around the ground. I heard a guy say behind me well thats that then because there is no way we can score twice. Now unfortunately he was right and we are not exactly a free scoring outfit but you do wonder whether this general mood, however understandable it is, at home games is affecting the players. In my opinon we are lacking 3 main things at the moment, one is a bit of quality ( tough one to solve in a hurry) , the second is consistency and the third is confidence. It is the third one that we as supporters can help with a bit even if we are despairing at some of what we are seeing at the moment. For what its worth despite Saturday I still think things could turn round fairly quickly if and when the players start to believe in themselves especially in front of goal, we have to believe that GP will sort it out because for the first time in a long time we have a manager who seems to know what needs to be done and appears to have a plan of action as to how to sort this sorry mess out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 16:00:40 GMT 1
I remember Rushden away in 2002. 1,300 Town fans, 50 locked out. The noise was amazing, I have never seen support like it. By half time we were 3-0 down (could have been 10) so getting behind the lads does not always work.
The Toon army are amazing aren't they? The last 3 or 4 games they have been booing and jeering long before the end. A decade or so ago they were getting 15,000. Where were the other 37,000 when they were struggling in Div 1?
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Dec 20, 2004 16:15:18 GMT 1
read again craig - I was on about creating vibes youre creating bad vibes by suggesting what is the point of cheering on the lads as it didnt work at Rushden when a whopping 1300 Towns fans went (gee whiz) whats the point of ryan lowe crossing the ball, whats the point of luke shooting if only hes going to miss - whats the point of u going to the meadow in the first place ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 16:21:09 GMT 1
Sorry Matt, I forgot you are always correct Were you at the Rusden game. Taking the p**s out of that support suggests you were elsewhere My point is that performances are not always down to how the fans have backed the team. Sometimes the players have to take charge of the situation and block out any negative vibes and just get on with it.
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Post by rob on Dec 20, 2004 16:21:36 GMT 1
I remeber that Rushden game.
So bloke looking like Jesus was really p**sing a load of us with his antics as were the rushden stewards.
Its worth pointing out that their keeper got man of the match. Which sort of shows how unlucky we were....
As for supporting the team, well yes some of the abuse is quite awful.I have to be honest and say i find it hard sometiomes to randomly shout out come on salop when all i can see is a load of crap infront of me.
Its also worth noting that the team had the complete backing and belief of the supporters two years ago, look where we ended up then.... And no we cant just blame the manager for that, football is a team game....
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 20, 2004 16:36:31 GMT 1
There does have to be a step change in the crowd's behaviour which is entirely independent of anything on the pitch because the prospect of what is on the pitch providing an independent catalyst for change is very small.
This is very difficult to achieve. Crap performances happen but after nearly two years of them it just kills you to see such inept garbage.
It adds nothing for a Johnny come lately manager to say the ground needs to be like a fortress.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 16:39:39 GMT 1
Ideally the club should offer some sort of incentive to schools again, get as many people in as possible. A full house would add to the atmosphere. A half empty Meadow isn't very intimidating.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 16:40:41 GMT 1
Its worth pointing out that their keeper got man of the match. Which sort of shows how unlucky we were....
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Post by islay malt on Dec 20, 2004 17:18:47 GMT 1
Within the first 5 minutes some individuals on the Riverside were giving players stick for just about everything. Is there any way that can be justified?
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 20, 2004 17:26:07 GMT 1
I have to agree that the atmosphere on Saturday was not exactly amazing. But also do feel that the players have to give us something to be amazed about and I really do not think they were on fire on Saturday.
Am I alone in thinking that noon is a pretty daft time for a kick off? It's not really one time or another is it? I said before I got there I wished we had played on Friday night. For whatever reason no Shrewsbury side I have seen in the last 12 years has really been up for it at noon - I really don't know why.
That said, I do wish that the support at home was as good as that for away games as I do believe fans can make a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 17:41:30 GMT 1
Within the first 5 minutes some individuals on the Riverside were giving players stick for just about everything. Is there any way that can be justified? Not at all but the sad fact of the matter is that the vast majority of struggling teams do have to suffer negative fans. It's not just an STFC problem. Sometimes the players have spark the fans into action. In the end it seems to be catch 22. The players won't turn it on unless the fans get behind them and the fans won't get behind the players until the players turn it on.
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Post by islay malt on Dec 20, 2004 18:02:28 GMT 1
Not at all but the sad fact of the matter is that the vast majority of struggling teams do have to suffer negative fans. It's not just an STFC problem. Sometimes the players have spark the fans into action. In the end it seems to be catch 22. The players won't turn it on unless the fans get behind them and the fans won't get behind the players until the players turn it on. But at the start of the game you had more of the play, looked the better side and the more likely to score. Why get on their backs straight from the bl00dy kick-off? Sorry, but that's not normal.
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Dec 20, 2004 18:06:08 GMT 1
exactly - because the glass is half empty and there are no positive vibes
craig - newcastle fans WERE moaning.. yes i know, but they still out sang the kop on sunday despite their 3-1 defeat
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Post by scooter on Dec 20, 2004 18:18:13 GMT 1
Its worth pointing out that their keeper got man of the match. Which sort of shows how unlucky we were.... Nor will I, I was on my way home after being locked out
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 20, 2004 18:22:38 GMT 1
There seems to be a lot of people at the meadow who cannot and will not realise that they are watching a League 2 team who are trying to build up some self-confidence and need our support (although I do sometimes wonder if it's worth it).
If the moaners who start moaning straight away want to find something else to do then just go away and watch the Premier League (but it won't be as good)
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Dec 20, 2004 18:23:41 GMT 1
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Post by islay malt on Dec 20, 2004 18:25:54 GMT 1
If the moaners who start moaning straight away want to find something else to do then just go away and watch the Premier League (but it won't be as good) Bravo
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Post by scooter on Dec 20, 2004 18:26:32 GMT 1
But at the start of the game you had more of the play, looked the better side and the more likely to score. Why get on their backs straight from the bl00dy kick-off? Sorry, but that's not normal. The same old story, it just happens too often. I am not a moaner, but I was resigned to defeat as soon as they scored. It was the same against Rochdale and Rushden and a bit of a shock when we equalised againdt Grimsby. It shouldn't be like that, but it is, time and time again. The surprise is that so many are still going with so little to encourage them
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Post by Jemmosredcap on Dec 20, 2004 18:27:28 GMT 1
About the team at the moment:
mattsnapper being as you are Gary Peters' number 1 fan, why have we in our last 2 home games played worse then we did at home under quinn?
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Post by graedw on Dec 20, 2004 18:35:29 GMT 1
a lot of comments aimed at players is out of frustration rather than personal feelings, a player who gives 100% will get little abuse even if does not come up with the goods e.g luke, a player who is inconsistent is cheered by some e.g lowe, aiston, tolley, yet gets barracked by others, basically what i am trying to say is if the players look up for it give 100% the crowd will back them, a few misplaced passes, pulling out of tackles etc, the crowd will get on the individuals back, sadly at the moment the crowds are pessimistic, we are worried, jq had a great oportunity to build a strong youthful squad, sadly we ended up with injury prone and poor squad players, gp if he can keep us up will in my opinion be a miracle worker , the squad at present is inferior to the one two years ago, we are all worried and fear relegation will happen again, but the players have to give 100% to get the crowd behind them, anything less and understandibly given our current position the crowd will abuse individuals
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 18:39:42 GMT 1
exactly - because the glass is half empty and there are no positive vibes craig - newcastle fans WERE moaning.. yes i know, but they still out sang the kop on sunday despite their 3-1 defeat Yes, but people who follow Newcastle away are more likely to be (though not exclusively) long time supporters and people who will travel all over Europe to watch them. It's the same with STFC. Away from home the fans generate a better atmosphere. Agree? Incidently, I am not a moaner at matches. Never have and never will. I just believe players are pros and get paid so they should rise above any rubbish that is coming from the crowd. I admit to muttering the odd expletive and once shouted something rather unpleasant at Jemmo and Atkins after a game. But in 15 years that's about all I have done.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 18:42:26 GMT 1
But at the start of the game you had more of the play, looked the better side and the more likely to score. Why get on their backs straight from the bl00dy kick-off? Sorry, but that's not normal. It's wrong, I'm not saying it isn't. But it isn't just an STFC thing. I used to watch Coventry very rarely just before they went down and their fans were exactly the same. Wolves fans are also the same, and they get on the players backs even when they are riding high in the league!
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Post by rob on Dec 20, 2004 18:50:50 GMT 1
Newcastle fans???
What have they got to do with us???
Their chairman believes there is no place in football for clubs like us...
Besides 29,000 for a home game against Sporting... Great attendance.
Constant booing of certain players.
Booing of manager
And attendances appear to be dipping a bit....
Brilliant support, but I guess thats what happens when support comes about through overnight "sucess "(Keegan era).
Want to see real fans???
Take a look at Manchester City,
AFC WImbledon
Hell even AFC Telford and Carliar fans etc...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 18:52:47 GMT 1
Now Telford fans, they have been fantastic. I bet their average this year has been higher than anything the old club had in the past decade. And as for AFC Wimbledon, some of their attendances have been higher than what they used to manage for Prem games.
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Post by rob on Dec 20, 2004 19:00:34 GMT 1
steady on craig Last season telford average over 2000. Altho doing well I thought they were averaging somewhere between 1200-1600 Wimbledons attendances in the prem were around 6/7/8000 unless someone big was in town.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2004 19:05:30 GMT 1
Did they really, good grief It was probably helped by the hoards of Town fans who visited twice last season I think they are averaging around 1,500 at the moment. Wimbledon in the past managed under 3,500 for certain Prem matches. Usually when they played Coventry or Everton.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Dec 20, 2004 20:46:13 GMT 1
You have to consider the nature of Shrewsbury folk, there's the typical rural pessimism plus a touch of celtic gloom about us. And we've been on the slide for 15 years so we tend to fatalism.
The big (ex) industrial cities have a culture of men sticking together and being loyal to the organsation, whether it's a trade union or a football club. Towns like Shrewsbury have never had that culture and much as I'd like to think that the terraces can uplift the team I'm afraid it will have to be the other way around.
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