|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 6, 2004 14:26:06 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Cynical Shrew on Dec 6, 2004 21:36:30 GMT 1
A welcome thread Cynical. You don't need to list the reasons why STFC should not move. I am waiting to hear 1 real reason why STFC should move other than to fill the pockets of dishonest folk. My first reaction to the plans was that Roland Rat would 'fiddle while STFC burned' to such a degree that STFC would be dragged into the Conference by him within 3 years. I was right....except it only took him 2 years! There can only be one set of winners in this dodgy deal and it can't be the STFC fans or the future of the town itself. Why don't The Board disclose the settlors, trustees and beneficiaries of all trusts, (and their locations / IBC numbers), associated with Alaska etc? Why all the secrecy? Can you expand on this? I'm no longer in Salop and haven't followed the politics behind the move in detail, although it was obvious from the start that making a quick buck was far more important than football fans. From the plans I've seen, it is a close run thing between our new 'Stadium' and the 'luxury' flats at GM for the shoddiest and cheapest design. Some interesting replies on this thread. I had not realised that parking provision was only 600 places. You can imagine for a local derby there will be no parking at the ground for town fans at all!
|
|
|
Post by harmerhillshrew on Dec 6, 2004 21:48:12 GMT 1
Can you expand on this? I'm no longer in Salop and haven't followed the politics behind the move in detail, Neither is Glassback Two prats posting about something they are totally out of touch with.
|
|
|
Post by jamo on Dec 6, 2004 21:51:11 GMT 1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- i have no problem arguing with the likes of jamo as his criteria is sound and its just his opinion of things I have problems with !! Can you please explain that comment . I can see no evidence of my contribution to this thread
|
|
|
Post by Dale on Dec 6, 2004 21:52:55 GMT 1
Taffy's post is libellous in terms of defamation of character against our chairman Good old Taffy, always speaks from the heart
|
|
|
Post by GrizzlyShrew on Dec 6, 2004 22:33:15 GMT 1
Well coming in from Telford (got to watch footie somewhere - nothing worth watching in my hometown now ), I'm not filled with much enthusiasm to park somewhere else in S'Bury and catch a bus to the ground. Also not thrilled with the thought of queing for a long time to get out of the only exit from the ground (ever tried getting out of the Bescot ). And all that to have to sit down as well. No thanks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2004 23:02:11 GMT 1
WHOA!!!! Did'nt mean to start a civil war on the board. Sorry if I offend any of u folks with that earlier post. Just vocing my concerns over the move. Any decision of this magnitude has to be carefully handled and the club MUST consult the fans over certain aspects in order to ensure all parties are satisified and the move is succesful (the supporters bar is an example of one aspect that has yet to be resolved). I'am a born-sceptic hence why I have these reservations about the move, its a BIG step to take and I'm not as confident as everyone else that the move will guarntee extra income & a brighter future. I'am sure i WILL be proved wrong once the NM is up & running. However I hope (and am sure) that the club will have looked at all aspects of the move and ensured that the ground will be as suitable as possible given the budget we have to work with. I still have the horrible feeling that given the quick construction time we are gonna get a all-seated verson of the Deva. Atmosphere-wise I will of course miss the Riverside and that is one area that I feel the NM will never come close to matching and is a major reason why I have reservation over moving to an all-seated stadium. But so-long as we have a club to watch in the first place and are not in the same posistion as Wrexham all other aspect do pale in comparison. As for the 'Wyrcherley jibe' again sorry for offence - didn't mean anything shady/Steve Evans-esk in that remark simply meant that Roland as chairman of STFC would stand to receive a dividend of any profits the club made from the sale of the Meadow this was one view that was very popular within the media when the move was first announced, I doubt given his track record that he would accept any such ammount. But i'am worried the main reason that the main reason for the move has been financial, would personally have prefered the club to cite improved trainning/support faciliities for the move. I still think that the move will fail to generate huge ammounts of income from conferences given Shrewsburys limited business appeal. Certainly didn't mean to disrespect Roland as chairman (and in the light of recent revalation regarding Mr Poole) and directors he is a whiter-than white character and a true supporter-can testify to that personaly as I hugged after Exeter in 2000! As I said please forgive any offence did'nt mean it to be taken that way-just a young sceptic airing his concerns and yes, I guess my heart does rule my head given the strong emotial attachments I have to the Meadow (basically I have many happy memories of attending games with my dad as I'm sure we all do). On the whole I realise the move is necessary I just hope that we get a well-built (ie minimal use of brease blocks ),suitable stadium that will fit the needs of supporters. PEACE
|
|
|
Post by timgallon on Dec 6, 2004 23:17:57 GMT 1
Neither is Glassback Two prats posting about something they are totally out of touch with. Agree HHS, ignorance is bliss until it surfaces like the bollox these two are spouting. At least CynicalShrew has accepted the thing will happen, he's been telling us for the last few years that it never would.
|
|
|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 6, 2004 23:35:32 GMT 1
No probs Taffy Your opinions on the new ground are very valid and some questions need to be raised Basically there is no parking for home fans on the stadium site, that is a fact It's all sorted
|
|
|
Post by Mediolanum Shrew on Dec 7, 2004 9:09:58 GMT 1
Can you expand on this? I'm no longer in Salop and haven't followed the politics behind the move in detail, although it was obvious from the start that making a quick buck was far more important than football fans. From the plans I've seen, it is a close run thing between our new 'Stadium' and the 'luxury' flats at GM for the shoddiest and cheapest design. Ahh so know everything becomes clear... Some interesting replies on this thread. I had not realised that parking provision was only 600 places. You can imagine for a local derby there will be no parking at the ground for town fans at all!
|
|
|
Post by petetheloon on Dec 7, 2004 10:25:26 GMT 1
The most pointless debate I have ever read We are moving and thats the end of it. Can we have a new debate on whether or not Henry VIII is right to knock down part of Shrewsbury Abbey as part of his move to ex-communicate England from the Catholic church?
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Dec 7, 2004 13:19:09 GMT 1
The most pointless debate I have ever read We are moving and thats the end of it. Can we have a new debate on whether or not Henry VIII is right to knock down part of Shrewsbury Abbey as part of his move to ex-communicate England from the Catholic church? The debate has not been about whether we move or not. It has been about what we will get at the New Meadow, how we will get there and where we will park.
|
|
|
Post by SlimShandy on Dec 7, 2004 13:33:12 GMT 1
3. POST EDITED DUE TO COMMENTS BEING LIBELLOUS What was so libellous that you felt you had to edit it, TBH? Taffy - can you send me the gist in a personal message? My interest is piqued.
|
|
|
Post by WarsawPact on Dec 7, 2004 13:44:00 GMT 1
A few points from our (Walsall) experience of moving grounds: You're lucky to have the opportunity to debate these issues. We moved from Fellows Park in the messy aftermath of the bankruptcy of our then owner (Terry Ramsden). We were glad we'd still got our club to support - a new stadium within a couple of years was an unlooked for bonus . Both Fellows Park and Bescot were/are out-of-towners, about 20-30 mins walk from the town centre. Before the bus services were privatised, there used to be loads of "Football Specials" - dedicated buses ferrying supporters to the ground from all parts of Walsall. Now we only have the scheduled Walsall to West Brom service which goes past the ground. If you're relying on buses, then you're relying on the vagaries of private bus companies driven by profit. You've been spoilt by having a town centre ground - you'll just have to get your fat arses into gear and leave for the match a bit earlier. Walsall have started opening the new conference area under the new stand at 1pm on Saturdays to encourage supporters to get to the ground early, buy food & drink from the Club rather than surrounding pubs etc. Bescot has around 1000 parking spaces serving it. The current capacity is 10,500, although we have planning approval to increase the capacity to 13,500 with no increase in parking proposed. The new ground should give you the means to generate cash all year round - if you exploit the possibilities to the max. Walsall's commercial income is about 3 times more than the gate receipts. Yes, you'll miss the terraces. Yes, the atmosphere won't be as good. But the "mythology" of a ground can only be gained through the experiences and memories that you get there. It will take time, but it will become home.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2004 13:55:09 GMT 1
A few points from our (Walsall) experience of moving grounds: You're lucky to have the opportunity to debate these issues. We moved from Fellows Park in the messy aftermath of the bankruptcy of our then owner (Terry Ramsden). We were glad we'd still got our club to support - a new stadium within a couple of years was an unlooked for bonus . Both Fellows Park and Bescot were/are out-of-towners, about 20-30 mins walk from the town centre. Before the bus services were privatised, there used to be loads of "Football Specials" - dedicated buses ferrying supporters to the ground from all parts of Walsall. Now we only have the scheduled Walsall to West Brom service which goes past the ground. If you're relying on buses, then you're relying on the vagaries of private bus companies driven by profit. You've been spoilt by having a town centre ground - you'll just have to get your fat arses into gear and leave for the match a bit earlier. Walsall have started opening the new conference area under the new stand at 1pm on Saturdays to encourage supporters to get to the ground early, buy food & drink from the Club rather than surrounding pubs etc. Bescot has around 1000 parking spaces serving it. The current capacity is 10,500, although we have planning approval to increase the capacity to 13,500 with no increase in parking proposed. The new ground should give you the means to generate cash all year round - if you exploit the possibilities to the max. Walsall's commercial income is about 3 times more than the gate receipts. Yes, you'll miss the terraces. Yes, the atmosphere won't be as good. But the "mythology" of a ground can only be gained through the experiences and memories that you get there. It will take time, but it will become home. Thanks, very interesting. I think you're right about the last one. If we'd moved 3 years earlier we might have enjoyed Jemmo's goals against Everton and Moss' penalty against Barnet in the new ground, which would instantly give us more to love about it. Very interesting point about commercial income. Out of interest how big is your Marketing department that runs this? We've just shut ours down......
|
|
|
Post by Cynical Shrew on Dec 7, 2004 18:49:36 GMT 1
The most pointless debate I have ever read We are moving and thats the end of it. Can we have a new debate on whether or not Henry VIII is right to knock down part of Shrewsbury Abbey as part of his move to ex-communicate England from the Catholic church? As any fule kno, Telford knocked down the Abbey in the 19th Century to build a road. Although the explanation of the rationale for that bit of vandalism is every bit as truthful as the reasons given here for the move to NM.
|
|
|
Post by Cynical Shrew on Dec 7, 2004 18:53:46 GMT 1
A few points from our (Walsall) experience of moving grounds: You're lucky to have the opportunity to debate these issues. We moved from Fellows Park in the messy aftermath of the bankruptcy of our then owner (Terry Ramsden). We were glad we'd still got our club to support - a new stadium within a couple of years was an unlooked for bonus . Both Fellows Park and Bescot were/are out-of-towners, about 20-30 mins walk from the town centre. Before the bus services were privatised, there used to be loads of "Football Specials" - dedicated buses ferrying supporters to the ground from all parts of Walsall. Now we only have the scheduled Walsall to West Brom service which goes past the ground. If you're relying on buses, then you're relying on the vagaries of private bus companies driven by profit. You've been spoilt by having a town centre ground - you'll just have to get your fat arses into gear and leave for the match a bit earlier. Walsall have started opening the new conference area under the new stand at 1pm on Saturdays to encourage supporters to get to the ground early, buy food & drink from the Club rather than surrounding pubs etc. Bescot has around 1000 parking spaces serving it. The current capacity is 10,500, although we have planning approval to increase the capacity to 13,500 with no increase in parking proposed. The new ground should give you the means to generate cash all year round - if you exploit the possibilities to the max. Walsall's commercial income is about 3 times more than the gate receipts. Yes, you'll miss the terraces. Yes, the atmosphere won't be as good. But the "mythology" of a ground can only be gained through the experiences and memories that you get there. It will take time, but it will become home. Interesting points from 'Aynock. What must be added is that Fellows Park was a dump, with a non-league standard 'grandstand' in a not particularly good spot. The move to the Biscuit Tin was certainly an improvement at the time, and Walsall were in the deep stuff financially. None of this really applies to STFC. OK the ground is rundown because its been given up on, but GM has an ideal setting and is no Bescot, Sealand Rd or Old Show Ground, grounds as anonymous as their shed like sucessors. Our ground by the river, it's a football landmark!
|
|
|
Post by Amy on Dec 7, 2004 19:07:51 GMT 1
only one acess road, which combined with the point below severely limits the ground capacity of GM, reguardless of how its spruced up etc..
The council have rejected plans to build an exit behind the wakeman.
The ground is probably uninsurable, due to flooding.
So please tell me cynical shrew how the club get around these problems???
Besides how does it effect you? You've all but said you wont go when we move and you've already admitted that you barely go now.
So what if the board are making money (Im not suggesting they are) after all STFC is a privatly run company (so the council keep telling us)
|
|
|
Post by CaptainGlassback on Dec 7, 2004 22:36:13 GMT 1
Oh Dear! The 'Conference Lemmings' really come out with this type of thread.....suffering from their 'Telforditis'.....preparing to enter The MT Stadium, pick up their copy of The Stadium Echo and stretch their legs out across 6 empty seats!
|
|
|
Post by WarsawPact on Dec 8, 2004 0:20:57 GMT 1
WelshShrew - not sure how big our commercial department is, but I know that the club is one of the biggest employers in the Borough (taking part time staff into account - stewards, catering, Simon Osborn ) We've got a central location, next to the motorway, and we exploit that as much as possible. The big adverts facing the M6 bring in steady income. The proposed expansion of the away end will be wholly funded by a huge advert on the back, similar to the one just south of Birmingham. The catering facilities are fully booked, the conference facilities are used throughout the week (and there's planning approval for a 100 bed hotel to support this at the front of the ground.) The Sunday Markets held on the carpark are hugely successful. What's this got to do with football? Well it's guaranteed income, no matter what division we are in. It gives the club a stable base on which to build the playing side of the club. I'd have thought a hotel on the outskirts of Shrewsbury could do some decent business offering "citybreak" style deals. Your not too far from the West Midlands conurbation - you've got assets, use them! Cynic- Yes, Fellows Park was a s**tehole, but it was our s**tehole and we loved it. The situation was exactly the same, we needed to improve the ground, but didn't have the funds to do it. Access to the ground was restricted on two sides - in our case by the railway. We had to sell the ground and use the cash to build a new, cheaper ground nearby.
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Dec 8, 2004 12:54:00 GMT 1
only one acess road, which combined with the point below severely limits the ground capacity of GM, reguardless of how its spruced up etc.. The council have rejected plans to build an exit behind the wakeman. The ground is probably uninsurable, due to flooding. The time has really passed for these arguments, but I have to point out that 1. The New Meadow has a single access road. 2. I understood that the Club were given permission to have an exit into Abbey Gardens, but chose not to build it.
|
|
|
Post by rob on Dec 8, 2004 13:02:06 GMT 1
I stand corrected then
|
|
|
Post by Cynical Shrew on Dec 8, 2004 18:19:02 GMT 1
The time has really passed for these arguments, but I have to point out that 1. The New Meadow has a single access road. 2. I understood that the Club were given permission to have an exit into Abbey Gardens, but chose not to build it. What EXACTLY was the situation with the Abbey Gardens. The scoreboard was demolsihed in about 1996 IIRC (and a crying shame that was) but I was full of excitement as GM's capacity would rise and we wouldn't have a repeat of the Liverpool non-event. Did the council allow it and change their minds, never allow it at all, or could STFC simply not be arsed (I know what my money is on). In recent years, how much money has the club lost from big games where there was a potential for a 10000 crowd? There was talk of redeveloping the Meadow about '96 including a feature of proposed plans in 'A Large Scotch', in fact I remember there were plans for the Station End in 1994 when we won the Championship. Anyone remember the Centre Stand fiasco of the following season? STFC can moan about money all they like but why weren't they trying to get their hands on readily available FGIT money ten years ago. When the likes of Rochdale (perennial strugglers) and Exeter (in deeper brown stuff than us) can redevelop their grounds I can't see why we can't. Another thing, if and when the shoddy B&Q Warehouse is built, what are the odds that the current GM price of £14 to sit in the Wakeman becomes £15 to sit behind the goal, and £18-£20 if you actually want a decent view. Admission prices are already at the limit for my rare visits, and I'll never go again if they rise further.
|
|
|
Post by Salop_Ian on Dec 8, 2004 18:22:46 GMT 1
The club wanted the Abbey Gardens access because they were told that the safety authorities would authorise an increase in the stadium's capacity. Then authorities revised their opinion and said they still wouldn't allow an increase in capacity. So the club junked the idea - not before they demolished the old scoreboard though.
|
|
|
Post by Cynical Shrew on Dec 8, 2004 18:44:31 GMT 1
The club wanted the Abbey Gardens access because they were told that the safety authorities would authorise an increase in the stadium's capacity. Then authorities revised their opinion and said they still wouldn't allow an increase in capacity. So the club junked the idea - not before they demolished the old scoreboard though. Interesting. Who were 'the authorities' (fire? police? SABC?), what was their reasoning and did STFC do anything to pursue their case further?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2004 19:58:37 GMT 1
Admission prices are already at the limit for my rare visits, and I'll never go again if they rise further Good, jack the prices up! I have my reservations about moving as I stated earlier in this thread-those are my personal views/opinions which I have voiced, I haven't resorted to becoming offensive. In reply to your quote tho, I don't care if STFC are playing at the nou camp or in the quarry park I would still attend.
|
|
HandsOffMeadowEnjoyment
Guest
|
Post by HandsOffMeadowEnjoyment on Dec 8, 2004 23:55:49 GMT 1
Fair play it always amazes me how many whingers there are - but how few of them are 'doers'. I guess it's a lot easier to moan at something rather than try to do something about and fail trying. The New Meadow IS going to happen, it's up to us now to get the most out of the move. my point is the fans don't appear to be getting much out of this move. as for "doers" i have sold programmes at town games ,i have been a writer and seller for town fanzines,i played for asfc nearly 20 years ago,i have attended meetings and have helped organise talks at the club,i bought my first season ticket in 1980 and i am still a holder,i have sold raffle tickets(remember the fireside club?) and have been paying to watch this club for 30 years. yes i know that others have done a lot more but i don't come on here accusing people of not doing anything just because they have different views to my self.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2004 0:01:36 GMT 1
my point is the fans don't appear to be getting much out of this move. as for " doers" i have sold programmes at town games ,i have been a writer and seller for town fanzines,i played for asfc nearly 20 years ago,i have attended meetings and have helped organise talks at the club,i bought my first season ticket in 1980 and i am still a holder,i have sold raffle tickets(remember the fireside club?) and have been paying to watch this club for 30 years. yes i know that others have done a lot more but i don't come on here accusing people of not doing anything just because they have different views to my self. My point is regards the new stadium move. It is going to happen, it is rubber stamped. So why are people moaning about it now rather than before it all got passed - I don't get it? Sounds like you've been in the position to be able to help the club bucket loads in your time as a supporter - now is as vital as ever, even if you're not behind the move, to make the transition to the New Meadow as smooth as possible for the club's fans.
|
|
HandsOffMeadowEnjoyment
Guest
|
Post by HandsOffMeadowEnjoyment on Dec 9, 2004 0:29:10 GMT 1
My point is regards the new stadium move. It is going to happen, it is rubber stamped. So why are people moaning about it now rather than before it all got passed - I don't get it? Sounds like you've been in the position to be able to help the club bucket loads in your time as a supporter - now is as vital as ever, even if you're not behind the move, to make the transition to the New Meadow as smooth as possible for the club's fans. Ant, the move has been inevitable for quite some time,but as each week passes there seems to be one more thing that the supporters have to get used to putting up with. people have argued for terracing-cant do it,a decent supporters bar-bit awkward,a club shop we can be proud of(size,not stock Sib) -well you can have a little one,car park-not for the masses. in my oppinion it would appear that what should be the best thing to happen to this club is going to be a miserable experience with supporters just being bussed in and out as quick as possible. ps when it is all seater i might get the seat behind you,immagine me whingeing in you ear for a whole season
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2004 0:33:00 GMT 1
Ant, the move has been inevitable for quite some time,but as each week passes there seems to be one more thing that the supporters have to get used to putting up with. people have argued for terracing-cant do it,a decent supporters bar-bit awkward,a club shop we can be proud of(size,not stock Sib) -well you can have a little one,car park-not for the masses. in my oppinion it would appear that what should be the best thing to happen to this club is going to be a miserable experience with supporters just being bussed in and out as quick as possible. ps when it is all seater i might get the seat behind you,immagine me whingeing in you ear for a whole season lol, like the last comment Spot on about the reservations about the move, but I do think there are things we can improve on, and the supporters bar is one. If we can get everyone hooted before the games maybe people won't mind sitting and seeing us lose still
|
|