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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2004 12:33:23 GMT 1
Lol! Good thread. I believe I watch enough football and enough of Shrewsbury Town to have a valid opinion. I believe that the majority of others on here do as well, not to say that our opinions cross over almost constantly (I disagree with Pricey about Darby, with the majority about the importance of a left back this season, and with DuncowShrew/Jamo about everything ) Kevin Ratcliffe and Dave Fogg thought they could keep Town up last year (or else they would have resigned). By your logic Stutt, they clearly know nothing about football. To state that Town fans aren't knowledgable about football or know 'F*** all' about football because we chose to go on believing that the Town's defence would at some point leaking goals and we could get the points to stay up, is an outrageous comment.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Mar 3, 2004 12:42:20 GMT 1
No offence Stutty - but how offten do you get over here from germany to see the town?? Some of the people you are slating go to almost every game - can you say from a distance that you are able to judge better the mood of the team/fans better than these people as i said its a point not a critisism
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Post by kickinpretty on Mar 3, 2004 12:49:42 GMT 1
I know f****ll about football but i still sussed Ratters out around Christmas.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 3, 2004 13:00:54 GMT 1
Blimey...I can see I'd best get padded up here...
I guess I'll have to put my hands up and say that I can only judge from the views and the opinions that are posted on B&A. Which may only account for a small percentage of Town fans who attend the games...so I guess that’s a big floor in me point...
However, if I'm honest I'd say that there a fair few on B&A who either see things through blue and amber specs or haven't got a clue what there on about. Just my humble opinion, that’s all. When it comes to comments regarding the match there is really only a small amount of members whose posts I take time out to read for a true understand of how the game went...because I consider them knowledgeable, unbiased and objective...
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Post by pawlo on Mar 3, 2004 13:08:34 GMT 1
Its no good anyone slating the fans for their lack of knowledge or anything else. Like a lot of others, Ive been watching town play for longer than some of the team have been alive.
If last nite had been the first game of football I had ever seen I would have come home pleased as punch. Even last year in the darkest season of our history I saw players give more. The players and management are at the club for one reason, and thats to gate paid, I have to pay to come to the club and I do it cos I love it. And I despair at the level to which we have sunk. Do the club expect the fans to be over joyed that we beat Woking 1 nil in what was one of the worst displays of football Ive ever seen, and lets face it, the competition over the last two years has been pretty stiff for that title.
When ( WHEN ), the town play well, I will cheer, I will not boo, but I think as supporters we have a right to expect certain standards from our team. We dont get the oppertunity to go on radio and give interviews to the press, expressing our opinions, we only have one way.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Mar 3, 2004 13:10:48 GMT 1
Stutty - am i one of these people I used to think the same as you last season stutty that a few members were to up the clubs A*** for want of a better word and that criticism never came until it was too late – after the boston game I was online telling it like it was and warning like you of the up coming trouble that at the time we could have got our selves into (and did) – and in fairness I remember the being a lot of people who don’t post on here who had ratcliffe “sussed out” around crimbo time. But I have to say that this is not the case this season because like most people many have learned from there mistakes, and have been hurt by what happened – I even remember seeing some of the very pro ratters fans – chanting out side the ground the on the night of the carslie game chanting for Ratcliffe to go, this season has been constructive criticism and its not a shock that the fans are getting on players backs more readily nowadays –
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2004 13:11:08 GMT 1
However, if I'm honest I'd say that there a fair few on B&A who either see things through blue and amber specs or haven't got a clue what there on about. Just my humble opinion, that’s all. That's very true and I see where you're coming from now Stuttgarter. Evidently our biggest mistake last year was supporting the club and manager when we shouldn't have done and that, of course, almost certainly had a lot to do with watching through b&a tinted specs. Hopefully such decisions on managers et all in the future won't be such, and that we've learnt a valuable lesson.
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Post by faginy on Mar 3, 2004 13:25:23 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2004 13:37:11 GMT 1
Just about to say the same faginy!
Why else would 3000 turn up on a freezing cold night to watch a game that hardly promised to be a barnstormer!
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Post by bazeus on Mar 3, 2004 13:38:47 GMT 1
Blimmin heck amy123, look what you've started!!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 3, 2004 15:02:50 GMT 1
Nah gpricey our kid, I've got time for your posts...and Ant's while we're at it...
Anyhows, I'd best shut up me thinks...
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Post by skipwithrob on Mar 3, 2004 15:16:17 GMT 1
Maybe KR had so many believers because last season came out of the blue after 2 seasons of solid progress.
We had pretty much the same side that just missed out on the play-offs and while the defense leaked more than a hole in a boat we still scored 65 odd goals. In my mind we attempted to play better football last year (at home anyway), however our defense let us down. And while the majority of us were wrong (in believing we'd stay up) it doesnt neccesarily mean we're all fools.
Andy complains a hell of a lot on shrewsworld, maybe he has forgotten last season...
After all how many supporters in football would wait untill the end of the second to last game of the season (by which time the club were relegated and hadnt won for 15 games) to call for the head of the manager? I cant think of any other sets of supporters who would do that, its even more remarkable considering a lot of us expected KR to continue to make progress.
Once bitten twice shy. Unfortunatly if we dont go up within the next few seasons there may be no getting back into the football league. The board know this hense the large investment, the management and players know this hense the 2year contracts, and we the supporters certanly know this. That may account for behaviour, we have no safety net. Last night I was more nervous about STFC keeping the heat on Chester and staying the play-offs, more nervous than at any point last season. Why? because last season has knocked a huge lump of confidence out of myself and no doubt many other people, and so to blame the fans is just rediculess. People should look at the gates the club are getting and then maybe think about judging....
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 179
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Post by Baafly on Mar 3, 2004 19:14:26 GMT 1
Andy did have a valid point IMO, concerning the effect that a nervy crowd has on the players.
You might be interested in this report on the Scarboro game. It talks about the crowd almost as much as the game.
Shrewsbury Town 4, Scarborough 1
We left the boozer, and wandered Gay Meadowards along the riverbank. As the picturesque tree-lined ground came into view, I was overcome with nostalgia and pleasure. We won’t get this experience at the proposed edge-of-town trading estate stadium. I asked my Shrewsbury-based mate if he was in favour of renovating the dilapidated old place, rather than re-locating.
“Nah” he said. “You can’t polish a t***.”
We entered the t***, positioned ourselves behind the Wakeman goal, and my pleasure started to dissipate.
Rodgered
Somehow it doesn’t feel right. The club are desperate to regain league status, and have retained and employed the personnel they think can do it. The crowd are impatient, disillusioned and abusive. The team are nervous, edgy, and lacking in confidence. Put all three of them together, and it does none of them any good.
The epitome of this is Luke Rodgers, their most famous and most notorious player. Denied a pre-season move to Division One club Crewe Alexandra because their bid was considered inadequate, burdened by unrealistic expectations, frequently hampered by an Owen-itis hamstring problem, usually frustrated by the “lowly” opposition’s double-marking and always baited by their fans, Rodgers cuts an increasingly forlorn (or Forlan) figure. On Saturday, when confronted with most of these, plus a vindictive and over-fussy referee, he was on a collision course with Earlybathland.
The fans could do with a hot bath too. And several relaxing spliffs probably wouldn’t go amiss either. Many of them had expected their well-financed and talented squad to cruise this league, and their laboured efforts so far this season have left their patience thinner than a Bobby Charlton comb-over. From the first minute, they’re on the back of whichever player they feel has been under-performing the most (at the time, it was Darby). If they’re not in front after half an hour, they’re in the stirrups of the entire team. It’s certainly not pleasant standing amongst them.
You can imagine, then, their howling reaction when, on 19 minutes, we went behind.
Penis in Spurs
A hopeful through ball was bobbling towards the penalty area. Centre-half Darren Tinson had it covered, but he had diminutive striker, Chris Senior up his arse. Slightly late, ‘keeper Scott Howie decided to come out and deal with it. He blasted it straight into Tinson and the ball ballooned up over his head. Senior ran on to it and attempted to do something he was clearly unfamiliar with – head the ball into the goal. It whispered off his forehead, and dribbled towards the near post, with the other centre-back Dave Ridler in pursuit. It looked as if both would bang into the post at the same time, but at the last moment Ridler (advisedly) chickened out, only to see the ball take a sharp right turn off a divot and park itself over the goal-line. It was possibly the most ludicrously amateurish defensive cock-up I’d ever seen… Until I watched Tottenham v Leicester, that is…
Things began to pick up. Scarborough had employed an energetic and effective full-pitch press from the start, but by the end of the first half, it looked increasingly obvious they didn’t have the stamina to maintain it. This didn’t prevent a fair proportion of the 3,300 or so home fans booing their team off. 1-0 down,and their remaining hopes were evaporating faster than the p!ss drops on a blacksmith’s underpants.
Darby Counted
The second half started much better and headed, with only occasional diversions, towards orgasm. The four goals would have graced any level of football. They were (in order) an exquisitely-weighted dummied pass (O’Connor) into the path of a clever diagonal run (Darby); a Beckhamesque free-kick (Sedgemore); an intricate short-passing move crowned by a 25 yard scorcher into the top right corner (O’Connor); and another passing move down the right, culminating in a lowe cross that even my dead grandmother couldn’t fail to convert. Duane Darby may be less attractive than her, but he duly obliged.
The cheers at the end were long and loud, but couldn’t drown out the memory of the half-time boos.
If they play the rest of the season like that second half, they may even challenge Chester for the title. More probably, their fixture backlog and their own inconsistency will let them down. The play-offs beckon.
But it would help if the team and the crowd could unify first. And there’s not much sign of that.
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Post by scooter on Mar 3, 2004 19:42:02 GMT 1
Out of curiosity, where did that report come from ?
It was better than the Star usually manage, and summed up the mood well.
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 179
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Post by Baafly on Mar 3, 2004 19:59:31 GMT 1
Erm. It was written by someone called "Baafly", and first appeared on a footie talkboard that I frequent.
Glad you liked it.
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 179
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Post by Baafly on Mar 3, 2004 20:02:12 GMT 1
BTW Scooter. Who's the guitarist in your picture?
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Post by scooter on Mar 3, 2004 20:11:30 GMT 1
It's the late Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead
I wonder if some the impatience of the crowd is down to people starting to come recently and having expectations that are just too high (that doesn't mean I'm happy with the Conference, but I am happy when we win)
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
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Post by Baafly on Mar 3, 2004 20:30:44 GMT 1
Jerry Garcia. I should've known. You might've inspired me to brush the cobwebs off my Live Dead album...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2004 20:45:17 GMT 1
With all respect to owd Andy doing the ShrewsWorld commentary - it's very easy for him to complain about the crowd when he's not forking out a rediculous amount of money for entrance to grounds every week.
I made a mistake about supporting Ratcliffe and co to the very end last season. It was a mistake but from playing football and supporting the town for 12 years I consider myself to know a lot about footbal.
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Post by skipwithrob on Mar 4, 2004 0:28:31 GMT 1
Brilliant match report Can his match reports be posted on b+a more often. Or even better sent into the star/non league paper or chronicle, absolute class. I agree Phil, I'd like to think I know quite a lot about football, I can tell you enough useless facts about it. The club have only themselves to blame for this expectation. What else do they expect when they make grand statements about promotion and fork out more on players than can last be remembered. Lets not forget a lot of the players we have signed have come from league clubs with half decent reputations, and the non league players we've signed have also had glowing reviews. Thus there is going to be expectation and rightly so. people criticise us for just taking every blow as it comes with out putting up to much of a struggle (last season being prime example), however when the fans start to show a bit more open assertiveness they get slated. Yes we have whingers, the wakemen and some stupid prats in the riverside, but when people like ant and Phil get so frustrated and annoyed that they feel it only appropriate to boo, and i'm left muttering quiet obscenities to myself we get slated.
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Post by pawlo on Mar 4, 2004 0:35:16 GMT 1
If they play the rest of the season like that second half, they may even challenge Chester for the title. Whilst its a great read, isnt this the important part of this post. If they did play as well for the rest of the season as they did in the second half against scarb no one would boo.
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Post by skipwithrob on Mar 4, 2004 0:41:28 GMT 1
or even played with some urgency. People say no one tried last year, but I can remember the salop players towards the end of the season doing everything in their power during a football match to score a goal. Unfortunatly it didnt work
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 179
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Post by Baafly on Mar 4, 2004 1:28:19 GMT 1
Last season there were a few problems, but only one real problem. It was a fecking big problem, but Rats seemed unwilling or incapable of doing anything about it.
The defence, which had looked the most fallible part of the team in August, a mortal blow when the Hoofmeister bowed out with his back injury. From then on, it was obvious we were lacking the organising, responsible centre-back that he was.
Even somebody as ignorant as me could see what was wrong. It hit home at about 3:20 of the game at Boston...
The fact that Ratcliffe, a truly great centre-half himself, failed to do anything about it, is inexcusable. It's not as if there was no money. The diversionary and glorious Cup run filled the coffers. We could afford a new centre-back. We needed a new centre-back. Where the föck was he?
Well, we have him now. And his defensive partner's pretty good too.
It's been a long time since a relegated club has bounced straight back to the league. I have no doubt that we're going to get in to, at least, the play-offs.
Let's get behind this team. We know they're capable of doing it. Our superior numbers, and their potential support can help them achieve it.
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Post by theexiledshrew on Mar 4, 2004 2:15:56 GMT 1
isnt everyone entitled to there own opinion then,
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Post by pawlo on Mar 4, 2004 12:26:39 GMT 1
Does no one see the hypocrisy in all this. What quinn and co are saying is basically, if the Town fans dont behave in a way that suits them, or doesnt live up to there expectations, ie, boo, get on the players backs ect, then they have the right to talk to the press, papers, radio and tell us so in no uncertain terms, and be rather insulting about our lack of football knowledge blah blah. But when its the players who are not performing how we expect them to, then we are not allowed to air our views, we are supposed to bite our tongues and just keep chearing as if nothing is wrong. Doesnt seem fair to me.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Mar 4, 2004 12:28:46 GMT 1
I really felt like cheering 5 nil down at the daggers
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Post by skipwithrob on Mar 4, 2004 13:52:02 GMT 1
At the end of the day I'm sure Tinno would rather be at a club with double the attendance of his previous club, where a few people boo when they think the performance is unacceptable and there are a few annoying old men, then be playing in front of 1500-2000 fans rattling round a stadium in erie silence.
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 179
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Post by Baafly on Mar 4, 2004 14:18:14 GMT 1
You're probably right, Rob.There's plenty of middle ground between booing and cheering. I was at Dagenham. I can assure you I didn't cheer. Not once. I doubt if anyone could've done, even if they'd tried. I remember yelling "Wake up!" at the team when it was still 0-0, because it was increasingly obvious it wouldn't remain 0-0 for long... Booing at the end of that game, or even at half-time (when we'd already shipped 3) is perfectly understandable, even expected. Indeed, Quinn kept the players on to hear it. But if you look at the season's results, that one does stand out as an aberration. Put it down to New Year complacency and Tinson's bad neck . The team seem to have learnt the lesson. They've only conceded one goal in the 5 league games since. We all have a right to boo, and a right to criticise. All I would say is that, generally, we're too quick to do it. 0-0 at half-time is not a disaster, by any means, and if they need balling out for lack of effort or poor play, I'm sure the manager and the more Keanesque type players can do it. If it's still 0-0 (or worse) at full-time then, chances are, they deserve it.
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Baafly
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 179
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Post by Baafly on Mar 4, 2004 14:20:36 GMT 1
Alright. Maybe I did cheer once at Dagenham. When they came out before kick-off...
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Mar 4, 2004 14:25:10 GMT 1
I cheered at that game up to the point Gregor walked out of the tunnel - it was down hill from there Does anyone remember inthe first half of that game when a long ball came over gregs side and tino was shouting " go long - go long" as in put it down the line - grego had tones of time and just smacked it out of play by the corner flag - tinno glared at him and and started pointing down the line and gregor said "its alright i put it out of play!" tinno just shook his head and looked like he was going to go home - not funny at the time but it makes me laugh about the hard times now ;D
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