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The NHS
Mar 15, 2024 16:34:32 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Mar 15, 2024 16:34:32 GMT 1
Marvellous! With a skill set like that, what could possibly go wrong? Brilliant , sometimes you have to wonder don’t you. Mind you ST didn’t tell you his qualifications after attending night school for many years was in plastering .😉👍 After a hard day dealing with pushy sales people sometimes the only relief is to get plastered.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 27, 2024 8:18:35 GMT 1
The first graph is a testament to the last 14 years of Tory government.
The second one is concerning. I think many GP surgeries are still hiding behind Covid and doctors are missing things in phone consultations that they would normally pick up on in person. This is leading to many illnesses not being diagnosed in good time and making the long term prognosis less favourable for the patient, while also costing the NHS more in treating the illnesses.
Money certainly is wasted in the NHS, but I definitely think that much of that is due the piecemeal way that goods and services are bought in. Giving out long term contracts to suppliers with no recourse to re-negotiate on price has been going on for years, maybe even decades. What the NHS needs is specialist purchasing and procurement experts that can re-write all these contracts with the onus being put back firmly on the suppliers to provide the best value for money. Money (to coin a phrase from a former Prime Minister) spaffed up against a wall on vanity projects, poor contracts and sweetheart deals for Tory donors could and more importantly should be spent on patient care and better conditions and wages for the staff. 47% of respondents thought the government wasn't giving the NHS enough money. I tend to agree somewhat with that, but that money needs to spent more wisely, giving the best outcomes for every patient.
We can afford the NHS, we just need the will to fight for it.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Mar 27, 2024 9:13:37 GMT 1
Too much waste, too many middle managers and money spent on non jobs like 'director of lived experience'. Not enough focus on prevention rather than cure. Too many fat people in the UK.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 27, 2024 9:50:02 GMT 1
Too much waste, too many middle managers and money spent on non jobs like 'director of lived experience'. Not enough focus on prevention rather than cure. Too many fat people in the UK. I think you'll find that there are too many senior managers and directors, rather than middle managers. The NHS is a national health service, but is being run as hundreds of local ones instead, with each trust needing to have it's own CEO, CFO etc. and when anyone of those people fail they get moved into the same job at another trust. It makes the Premier League managerial merry go round look sensible.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 27, 2024 10:09:04 GMT 1
All down to personal experience of course and whilst I have no doubt that there are thousands of staff within the NHS who are doing an incredible job, my family and I here in Germany have never encountered anything like the treatment relatives of mine suffered whilst staying and receiving treatment at Stafford and Burton hospitals respectively. It was truly horrific. Whilst it might well be the case in one or two instances, despite what some might tell you, the NHS is not the envy of the world. And I'm not sure such thinking helps either if it places barriers in the way of reform if it is ever seen as needed. And Proud is right to comment about the comparisons to USA. As I don't think that helps either. Its bizarre that you have so many who seem to argue that its either the NHS or a private insurance system as they have in the US with nothing in-between. That's just nonsense.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Mar 27, 2024 11:41:45 GMT 1
Just a thought
Inception of NHS 1948 UK Population 50,000,000
2024 UK Population 68,000,000
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The NHS
Mar 27, 2024 11:49:01 GMT 1
Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 27, 2024 11:49:01 GMT 1
2024 UK Population 68,000,000 Pretty sure there are projections that the UK will add over a further 6 million in the next 10 to 15 years too. Who knows, perhaps there is a means to sort it all out but for sure its going to come under an awful lot more pressure in the years to come.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 27, 2024 11:52:53 GMT 1
Just a thought Inception of NHS 1948 UK Population 50,000,000 2024 UK Population 68,000,000 Add to that, in 1948 there would've been: - None/minimal mental health treatment. - None/minimal special needs treatment. - Life expectancy was probably 20 years less. Just to name a few ...
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Post by Pilch on Mar 27, 2024 11:53:52 GMT 1
Just a thought Inception of NHS 1948 UK Population 50,000,000 2024 UK Population 68,000,000 We we all a lot healthier then too ? I guess that's a big debate on its own
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Mar 27, 2024 16:29:22 GMT 1
Just a thought Inception of NHS 1948 UK Population 50,000,000 2024 UK Population 68,000,000 We we all a lot healthier then too ? I guess that's a big debate on its own Elderly but sick people are being kept alive longer because of improved drugs and treatment. The question is whether their diminished quality of life makes it worthwhile. I also read that racist Frank Hester’s company made 57% profit on its NHS contract which explains how he had £15 million to spare plus a helicopter for the use of the PM.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 27, 2024 21:16:28 GMT 1
It's worthwhile remembering that in 2010 the satisfaction ratings of the NHS were at record levels. Funny what 14 years of systematic destruction can do.
These vandals need to see a similar destruction at the next election.
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The NHS
Mar 27, 2024 22:10:08 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Mar 27, 2024 22:10:08 GMT 1
Safe in their hands?
Is it really any wonder satisfaction levels are down when Junior Doctors are still striking? I blame the intransigence of Steve Berkley, the new person seems to want to settle the dispute but because SB wouldn't engage both parties are now entrenched far apart.
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The NHS
Mar 27, 2024 22:12:34 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Mar 27, 2024 22:12:34 GMT 1
Just a thought Inception of NHS 1948 UK Population 50,000,000 2024 UK Population 68,000,000 Add to that, in 1948 there would've been: - None/minimal mental health treatment. - None/minimal special needs treatment. - Life expectancy was probably 20 years less. Just to name a few ... NHS dental treatment was free though
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 28, 2024 8:04:59 GMT 1
Too much waste, too many middle managers and money spent on non jobs like 'director of lived experience'. Not enough focus on prevention rather than cure. Too many fat people in the UK. Maybe... Rather, the question we should ask is why the NHS is worse at converting a pile of cash into manpower and medical equipment than other health systems. A part of what makes a good system “good” is its ability to procure the equipment it needs, and even more so, to recruit, motivate, and retain the staff it needs.This from an article from November... The NHS is not underfunded...penned after the latest OECD annual "Health at a Glance" report, which is linked to in the article and worth a look if you want to compare the spending, population in poor health and other figures from around the world. The UK does indeed to have higher levels of obesity compared to many others looking to those stats. Getting back to the topic of different models, as stating in the article... While the NHS extends healthcare coverage to 100 per cent of the population, the OECD report shows that the same can be said about the systems of Australia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, France, Germany, and the Netherlands.All universal (as it should be) and at least one I know from personal experience that is a mix of public and private health insurance. So again, its best to ignore those who simply position any reform as a choice between the NHS and the US model. Its nonsense.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 28, 2024 9:06:23 GMT 1
Too much waste, too many middle managers and money spent on non jobs like 'director of lived experience'. Not enough focus on prevention rather than cure. Too many fat people in the UK. Maybe... Rather, the question we should ask is why the NHS is worse at converting a pile of cash into manpower and medical equipment than other health systems. A part of what makes a good system “good” is its ability to procure the equipment it needs, and even more so, to recruit, motivate, and retain the staff it needs.This from an article from November... The NHS is not underfunded...penned after the latest OECD annual "Health at a Glance" report, which is linked to in the article and worth a look if you want to compare the spending, population in poor health and other figures from around the world. The UK does indeed to have higher levels of obesity compared to many others looking to those stats. Getting back to the topic of different models, as stating in the article... While the NHS extends healthcare coverage to 100 per cent of the population, the OECD report shows that the same can be said about the systems of Australia, Canada, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, France, Germany, and the Netherlands.All universal (as it should be) and at least one I know from personal experience that is a mix of public and private health insurance. So again, its best to ignore those who simply position any reform as a choice between the NHS and the US model. Its nonsense. It might be pointless replying to this poster, as he has me on block, but this needs to be answered.
Yes all those countries do have universal healthcare up to a point, but beyond that point personal health insurance kicks in. What about those that can't get or afford that personal health insurance through poverty, immigration status, disability, homelessness or a plethora of other reasons?
The NHS is great, but it can't cope. That goes without saying and if people are lucky enough to be able to afford BUPA or similar or can stump the money themselves to book a private GP appointment or consultation that's great, because that is fewer people waiting to access those things on the NHS. I went private myself a couple times in my last job, because I had private healthcare included in my package. Better for me, yes, but also a massive benefit to the company, as I was back in work within a few weeks, rather than spending several months waiting for the NHS.
My argument against any type of requirement for private health insurance is that once it becomes the norm the people running it will start looking for reasons to not pay out or to restrict treatment. The bottom line is always going to outweigh the public need. It also risks becoming a two tier system, where the wealthy get the best treatment and the poor get a watered down version of we currently have.
I don't have the answers and I would imagine that people with a great deal more expertise and knowledge don't have them all either. Throwing money at the issues isn't going to fix them. Kicking the can down the road for a few years isn't going to fix them. This needs a cross party committee or Royal Commission to work together, find a consensus and put in place a system that ensures that the people of this country have the best healthcare and the best value for money going forward.
The very people that are telling us the NHS is not working are same ones that underfunded the railways, told us they were broken and needed private money. How has that worked out so far. The same goes for the water, gas and electricity production and supply.
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Post by tarporleyblue on Mar 28, 2024 10:58:03 GMT 1
We we all a lot healthier then too ? I guess that's a big debate on its own Elderly but sick people are being kept alive longer because of improved drugs and treatment. The question is whether their diminished quality of life makes it worthwhile. I also read that racist Frank Hester’s company made 57% profit on its NHS contract which explains how he had £15 million to spare plus a helicopter for the use of the PM. And we have more and more "bed blocking" because of the inadequacies of our social care system. We cannot just debate the NHS in isolation, the social care system is stretched too. More could and should be done to treat patients at home, rather than go into hospital.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 28, 2024 11:57:09 GMT 1
Elderly but sick people are being kept alive longer because of improved drugs and treatment. The question is whether their diminished quality of life makes it worthwhile. I also read that racist Frank Hester’s company made 57% profit on its NHS contract which explains how he had £15 million to spare plus a helicopter for the use of the PM. And we have more and more "bed blocking" because of the inadequacies of our social care system. We cannot just debate the NHS in isolation, the social care system is stretched too. More could and should be done to treat patients at home, rather than go into hospital. It's a shame al the cottage hospitals, which used to be a stepping stone for those leaving hospital were all sold off. Shropshire now has only 3 community hospitals since the closure of Bishops Castle. 25 beds at Bridgnorth, 24 in Ludlow and 32 in Whitchurch. For a county with a population nearing half a million people that is clearly inadequate. There are 327 beds at the PRH and 492 at RSH. The total equates to at total of 900 across the largest landlocked county in the UK. It also averages out at around 1.8 beds per 1,000 people in the county, while the UK average is around 2.5. Our German resident could confirm that the country he lives in has around 7.9 beds per 1,000.
Martin quite rightly pointed out that in 1948 mental health wasn't much of cost to the fledgling NHS, but in 1987 there were around 67,000 mental health beds in places like Shelton. By 2019 that number had dropped to 18,000.
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The NHS
Mar 28, 2024 12:59:57 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by martinshrew on Mar 28, 2024 12:59:57 GMT 1
I personally think the only solution is the NHS being taken out of government control, and put in the hands of a newly created cross party healthcare committee with stringent provisions in place.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 28, 2024 13:09:32 GMT 1
I personally think the only solution is the NHS being taken out of government control, and put in the hands of a newly created cross party healthcare committee with stringent provisions in place. At the moment the fundings controlled by the chancellor, the historic underfundings down the the Health Secretary during austerity….. See a connection?
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Post by Valerioch on Mar 28, 2024 14:34:10 GMT 1
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The NHS
Mar 28, 2024 19:31:58 GMT 1
Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2024 19:31:58 GMT 1
Start health young, does anybody really want hospital treatment? Academic qualifications are all very well, but healthy citizens, physically and mentally, coming out of education is probably going to do the students more good over their lifetime.
Start by employing PE teachers more tuned in to what individual students need. Don't bother with things that pupils won't ever do again after leaving school. Get the social side right too to aid mental health.
Let's bring up healthier generations of adults with healthy lifestyles and save money and suffering.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 28, 2024 20:57:24 GMT 1
But back in 2010 there were 31.3 million UK taxpayers of which 3.3 were higher rate payers. In 2023 there were 35.9 million UK taxpayers of which 6.5 million were higher rate payers. Obviously the freezing of tax thresholds has had an impact on the amount of taxpayers, but I would think it's safe to say that many of those people coming here are contributing to the government coffers. That should have a positive impact on the exchequer. That it doesn't seem to have equated to extra money for public services should ring alarm bells.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 29, 2024 9:28:18 GMT 1
And in the next 12 years the UK's Office for National Statistics predict that another 6.5 million people will arrive in the UK. And from what limited information is available I'm pretty sure, from what I have read and understood, the vast majority of whom will be a net fiscal cost rather than a benefit to the UK economy (if things continue as they are, if the current makeup of immigration to the UK remains the same). Consider this for example; information from the ONS shows that of the roughly 2 million Non-EU net migration to the UK in the last five years 15% came for work. The rest is made up of students, the dependents of students, the relatives of workers, refugees and asylum-seekers. Granted many of those find work but for the most part it is low skill and low wage. I wasn't aware until recently that international students can remain in the UK after their studying too and that is on any wage (I think its for 2 years but what checks are made to enforce that, who knows). And it's not just the UK who are seeing this... Dutch study: immigration costs state €17 billion per year
The Dutch study is linked to in the article and worth a look, there is a lot of data provided. If I have it right and in layman's terms, whilst populations are increasing the number of those who make a net contribution is not or at least not keeping pace. And I guess if things carry on as they are we will reach some tipping point. And what impact that will have remains to be seen; on housing, on education and a lot more besides, including of course, the NHS. So lets see what Labour have in mind.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 29, 2024 10:30:26 GMT 1
Ooh goodie, glad that's out the way. Now that we've had the anti immigration rant from someone who doesn't even live in the bloody country and is in fact an immigrant in another country, let's look at the facts.
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Post by Valerioch on Mar 29, 2024 10:40:25 GMT 1
Ooh goodie, glad that's out the way. Now that we've had the anti immigration rant from someone who doesn't even live in the bloody country and is in fact an immigrant in another country, let's look at the facts. His post is littered with facts
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 29, 2024 11:11:06 GMT 1
Ooh goodie, glad that's out the way. Now that we've had the anti immigration rant from someone who doesn't even live in the bloody country and is in fact an immigrant in another country, let's look at the facts. His post is littered with facts Indeed, as is the article I linked to. As is the research and articles linked to within that. That's twice now he's looking to get personal, is he stalking me? It's getting a bit weird.🤔 And as an immigrant myself I shouldn't be concerned with the impact of immigration? What nonsense. I just can't take him seriously, hence why, in part, I block him.🙂
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 29, 2024 12:20:10 GMT 1
His post is littered with facts Indeed, as is the article I linked to. As is the research and articles linked to within that. That's twice now he's looking to get personal, is he stalking me? It's getting a bit weird.🤔 And as an immigrant myself I shouldn't be concerned with the impact of immigration? What nonsense. I just can't take him seriously, hence why, in part, I block him.🙂 Aw, bless. ' I can't take him seriously '. Translation ' I'm running scared '. Not stalking, just trying to engage in a serious conversation. Scared?
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 29, 2024 12:55:07 GMT 1
Ooh goodie, glad that's out the way. Now that we've had the anti immigration rant from someone who doesn't even live in the bloody country and is in fact an immigrant in another country, let's look at the facts. His post is littered with facts I'm not disputing that there are facts included in that post, I'm making the point that those all people coming to the UK are not necessarily having a detrimental impact, there is a lot more involved than that. The amount of money that has been staffed up the wall in the last 14 years has also had a massive impact and pointing the finger at people who happen to be a different colour or religion is only deflection from the last almost decade and a half of near criminal neglect of the country by the Tories . EU migration prior to Brexit had a net positive impact, even you must admit that. Immigration hasn't slowed down, the demographic has just changed, with more people coming from the Indian sub-continent, the far and middle east and Africa. Just a reminder that if we were still in the EU we could have put every single failed asylum seeker on a ferry back to the European mainland. Hey ho we'll just notch that down as another Brexit win shall we.
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The NHS
Mar 29, 2024 13:14:12 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Valerioch on Mar 29, 2024 13:14:12 GMT 1
His post is littered with facts I'm not disputing that there are facts included in that post, I'm making the point that those all people coming to the UK are not necessarily having a detrimental impact, there is a lot more involved than that. The amount of money that has been staffed up the wall in the last 14 years has also had a massive impact and pointing the finger at people who happen to be a different colour or religion is only deflection from the last almost decade and a half of near criminal neglect of the country by the Tories . EU migration prior to Brexit had a net positive impact, even you must admit that. Immigration hasn't slowed down, the demographic has just changed, with more people coming from the Indian sub-continent, the far and middle east and Africa. Just a reminder that if we were still in the EU we could have put every single failed asylum seeker on a ferry back to the European mainland. Hey ho we'll just notch that down as another Brexit win shall we. This thread isn’t for the ins and outs of immigration, just one of my opinions on the state of the NHS (of several I’ve stated earlier) is exponential growth in the population of the type that we have seen, and will likely continue to see, will only impact the NHS, and all other public services, in an adverse manner
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The NHS
Mar 29, 2024 13:21:00 GMT 1
Post by Pilch on Mar 29, 2024 13:21:00 GMT 1
Ooh goodie, glad that's out the way. Now that we've had the anti immigration rant from someone who doesn't even live in the bloody country and is in fact an immigrant in another country, let's look at the facts. does the not living in the country rule out your opinions on the Middle East ?
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