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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 25, 2007 10:39:56 GMT 1
Not sure what to think of this one news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7010077.stmI wasn't aware that there was a "straight" world cup? I certainly wonder what would happen if you hosted a football tournament that banned homosexual players? I guess that is the tension with "minority" events. I can see the message they are trying to get across but I just wonder if it is not ultimately damaging to their cause. We don't have a black Olympics? Because many years ago black athletes got to the top of their profession, in the face of societal opposition, and proved themselves. I wonder if that is the model to follow, rather than making it a specialist, exclusive thing.
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Post by Fingers on Sept 25, 2007 10:46:08 GMT 1
Its just another way of segregation.
Absolutely ridiculous, they want to be perceived as equals (which they are) and want to be treated the same as everyone regardless of age or gender. Events like this do nothing for credibility and I do not see what the point is.
As with most 'minority' groups they can play the everyone is against us card as much as they want but what are they doing to intergrate with other groups when they put up these boundaries?
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Sept 25, 2007 10:51:42 GMT 1
Is Ant playing
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Post by neilsalop on Sept 25, 2007 10:57:52 GMT 1
One of the reasons I gave up crown green bowls a few years ago was the fact that women could play in the regular league when there was a womens league that men couldn't play in. There are women only gyms, but not many men only; there's a Black Police Officers Association, but no white one; and now there's a Gay World Cup, but no straight one. I'm glad it's not just this country that fuktup
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Post by Fingers on Sept 25, 2007 11:27:54 GMT 1
Is Ant playing No. They couldn't find a position that he felt comfortable with.
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Post by der kaiser on Sept 25, 2007 11:41:25 GMT 1
I am sure somebody with put in a stiff challenge.
And one or two may tackle from behind.
Who will be playing in the hole?
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Post by gregtheshrew on Sept 25, 2007 12:14:01 GMT 1
They don't have the Alan Shearer pre match meal of chicken and beans,they have mince. I'll get my coat.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 25, 2007 14:12:28 GMT 1
I think its just an excuse for like minded folk to get together and...you know...have fun. I don’t think its an event to get any type of message across or owt...its not official or owt is it, with FIFA I mean...
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Post by Mr Brightside on Sept 25, 2007 19:06:13 GMT 1
This is a tricky one, and sorry for the lengthy post. I know where you're coming from ThrobsBlackHat with your comments, and personally I have to admit to being of the belief that surely in this day and age we should all be able to get on with each other and be civil, and there should be no need for these "minority events". I can't speak in relation to the "Gay World Cup" because I have never heard of it, and as you quite rightly say, there is no "Straight World Cup". I have however over the last few years got to know friends who are gay/bi/whatever they want to class themselves as, including lads who started up a "Gay" football team in Birmingham - many people have questioned the reasons behind this, as well as the league they are now entered in, and the GFSN - Gay Football Supporters Network. They have repeatedly said that its as much about the social aspect as it is the sporting and competitive side... Try and imagine, when you take into account the amount of comments that can be heard on the average terrace, being a young lad, say 17 or 18, who enjoys going to the football with his mates, but knows himself he is gay or bisexual. Could you talk to your mates about this and stand as an equal on the terraces? If one of your mates from block 17 came out to you guys would you respect him and treat him the same as you did before? It'd be great to say yes to both of these points, and maybe at Shrewsbury you could do, but I for one wouldn't have really wanted to take a chance - can you imagine a sympathetic or "yeah and?" kind of response from lads at Elland Road or Ninian Park? We're all guilty of using slang and banter, be it even as simple as "Get up ya f***ing pansy!" when a player goes down to easily under a tackle, but it can be quite intimidating when psychologically you know you don't quite fit in... Obviously the other side of the coin is that these lads are just normal lads, they like their footie, they enjoy a pint (or several) and live normal lives. The lads I know can't stand going out to "Gay" clubs and dancing to Madonna and Kylie with their cocktails and vodka & cokes in their hands, whilst possibly getting high on poppers or whatever's going round that night then falling into bed with the first man they see, for one night only... All of this may be stereotyping, but it happens. - So where does this leave them? Between two camps - they can go out drinking with the lads and have an enjoyable night out until someone starts talkin about women or someone comes up to them, then it gets rather awkward, or they can go out with the coked-up disco bunnies listening to music they can't stand in dirty little clubs drinking over-priced watered down muck, just to fit in with what they perceive is "expected" of them. The reason the clubs are started is so that these lads have a place to go to for social interaction where they can meet other like-minded people with similar interests as them who they can relate to. And that is fantastic. I have to say though that for all the above, and all the efforts to make homosexuality acceptable in mainstream society, I do not agree with segregation that exists and continues to be created. The GFSN in itself is a great idea, so that people can chat and get to know other people who are in the same boat to them as it were, but then meet up and carry out friendships in the real world. But the GFSN Leagues, as with the Gay World Cup, the "Gay Games" - the Olympics for Homosexuals basically, etc etc just distance gay people from straight people. Their intentions are good, but as Throbs says, is it damaging in the long term that they are not able to compete and interact and enjoy themselves with others, because of their sexual orientation? I think like many aspects of Gay culture, it is outdated, and there is no need for it in modern society. Take "Pride" events for example, decades ago they were deemed necessary as the gay population began to stand on its collective two feet, and had to fight against the barrage of homophobia and stereotyping which has only really gone away in the last 10 or 15 years, but even so, these events continue, and are just a regular excuse for a pi$$ up. One of the Gay teams in Manchester actually plays its football in their local Sunday League, and although it has come across some homophobic attitudes, once they have played the football match, it is more often than not replaced by respect for a fellow group of football fans. And at the most basic level, that is all they are. Perhaps that is the way forwards, I guess as far as the acceptance of homosexuals in mainstream society has come, there is still a lot of work to be done by everyone - including themselves, and a long way to go...
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Post by bobbyc on Sept 25, 2007 22:49:24 GMT 1
top post brightside, exalted
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Post by monkeechicken on Sept 25, 2007 23:07:30 GMT 1
something has occurred to me. do they insist that all of the participants are actually gay. Also is it just gay men or are gay women allowed too?
how do you prove you are gay? surely they cant ask you to kiss another bloke to prove your sexuality.
i think the chances are that there are a few ringers in this competition.
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Post by Fingers on Sept 25, 2007 23:47:00 GMT 1
i think the chances are that there are a few ringers in this competition. I would say that is a dead cert.
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Post by scooter on Sept 25, 2007 23:51:13 GMT 1
Try and imagine, when you take into account the amount of comments that can be heard on the average terrace, being a young lad, say 17 or 18, who enjoys going to the football with his mates, but knows himself he is gay or bisexual. Could you talk to your mates about this and stand as an equal on the terraces? If one of your mates from block 17 came out to you guys would you respect him and treat him the same as you did before? It'd be great to say yes to both of these points, and maybe at Shrewsbury you could do, but I for one wouldn't have really wanted to take a chance - can you imagine a sympathetic or "yeah and?" kind of response from lads at Elland Road or Ninian Park? We're all guilty of using slang and banter, be it even as simple as "Get up ya f***ing pansy!" when a player goes down to easily under a tackle, but it can be quite intimidating when psychologically you know you don't quite fit in... You only have to read some of the "jokes" in this thread to see why they feel it necessary to hold their own separate competition
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Post by saloppride on Sept 26, 2007 9:54:41 GMT 1
They don't have the Alan Shearer pre match meal of chicken and beans,they have mince. I'll get my coat. It wasn't that bad Greg!
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Post by Mr Brightside on Sept 26, 2007 12:16:39 GMT 1
something has occurred to me. do they insist that all of the participants are actually gay. Also is it just gay men or are gay women allowed too? how do you prove you are gay? surely they cant ask you to kiss another bloke to prove your sexuality. i think the chances are that there are a few ringers in this competition. It is not just restricted to gay people no, in fact both the GFSN and the individual teams websites all state its open to anyone - gay, bi, curious, straight, openminded... They just ask that anyone who goes to see them or wants to play for them leave their predjudices at home... which is a perfectly fair request... as for the point about proving that you are gay, ridiculously there are clubs around which are "exclusively gay" and they do "checks" on the doors, especially as a few years ago straight lads latched onto the fact that girls enjoyed going to these places for a hassle free good night out, so they started going in after the ladies, and you can imagine the trouble caused by some of the lads after a few bevvies! - But I always wondered what the hell the "checks" done on the door were!?!? And yes Scooter, some of the reactions prove the point I was making nicely
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Post by Fingers on Sept 26, 2007 12:20:17 GMT 1
It does my head in, I was stopped from entering a couple of gay establishments in Manchester becuase 'you don't look gay'? So?
There are no 'straight only' clubs they are open to everyone why then is this the case. There are some great bars down canal street and they should be enjoyed by people who want a fun night out with a great atmosphere.
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Post by Mr Brightside on Sept 26, 2007 12:39:20 GMT 1
It does my head in, I was stopped from entering a couple of gay establishments in Manchester becuase 'you don't look gay'? So? There are no 'straight only' clubs they are open to everyone why then is this the case. There are some great bars down canal street and they should be enjoyed by people who want a fun night out with a great atmosphere. notworthy completely agree. I guess it's a bit risky opening it to everyone given the attacks that have taken place in the past by the minority thugs... But surely common sense should prevail with regards the doormen, as apposed to "you ain't glittery enough, you ain't coming in" - I guess also imagine the lads that door policy has offened who ARE gay but are just normal down to earth lads rather than obvious prancing queens!
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Post by scooter on Sept 26, 2007 12:58:04 GMT 1
In football, Graeme le saux found the allegation he was gay was difficilt to cope with, even though it wasn't true Link------> book extract
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Post by indianwells on Sept 26, 2007 13:04:28 GMT 1
In football, Graeme le saux found the allegation he was gay was difficilt to cope with, even though it wasn't true Link------> book extract Justin Fashanu found it even harder to cope even though it was true. Tragic someone is driven to suicide because of others who couldn't accept his sexuality. Having said that, I don't believe the gay community do themselves any favours by dressing up in pink tutus for gay pride marches. I think that justs winds people up more, in fact I really think that's the primary objective.
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lindsay englandgfsn
Guest
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Post by lindsay englandgfsn on Nov 23, 2008 20:44:47 GMT 1
the IGLFA and GFSN league are not exclusive! we accommodate all players of all nationalities and genders[mixed teams] sexuality religion etc. The need for 'gay' teams is so that players or fans who are treated too abuse both verbal and physical in mainstream leagues and team can play and watch with out fear of these criminal offenses being committed, with the hope that one day there will be no need for such separation.
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Post by shrewsace on Nov 23, 2008 21:03:51 GMT 1
In football, Graeme le saux found the allegation he was gay was difficilt to cope with, even though it wasn't true Link------> book extract That account from Le Saux is shocking - if not surprising - and that's someone who isn't gay but doesn't conform to the ultra-macho stereotype of a what a footballer is supposed to be like. I doubt much has changed, it would take a hell of a lot of guts for a pro footballer to admit to being gay, the stick he would get from the terraces and,- if Le Saux's account is anything to go by -possibly his colleagues could make life unbearable.
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Post by Victoria on Nov 23, 2008 21:43:01 GMT 1
I don't see the problem, as the guest above has pointed out it is a place for people who would otherwise receive s**t, to play in an environment where they could quite rightly have fun without getting homophobic abuse. Can you imagine if an openly gay side were in a local sunday league? Sadly they would be subject to biggotry.
It wouldn't be right if it was exclusivley gay as that would be discrimination and therefore illegal. Which is why I don't advocate gay only bars.....or the MOBO awards.
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Post by shrew4life on Nov 23, 2008 22:45:37 GMT 1
In football, Graeme le saux found the allegation he was gay was difficilt to cope with, even though it wasn't true Link------> book extract Interesting read.
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